• Software
  • [SOLVED] Windows 1709 update, OpenGL, Waves/Melda/Unfiltered Audio plugins...
2017/12/29 00:22:35
subtlearts
Aaaaah!

I have a pretty old desktop with a pretty old graphics card (Nvidia GeForce 7300). However, it works and does what I need it to, or at least it did, until Windows 1709 ('fall creators') update screwed it up. Now plugins from Waves, Melda, and Unfiltered Audio, which I am pretty reliant on, load with a blank UI. The Unfiltered ones I can get working by disabling the GPU acceleration, but the others I can't - Waves because apparently it's impossible, and Melda because it evidently can't be turned off except from the settings panel on the plugin, which I cannot load.

I've done a bunch of research on this and can't find a solution other than rolling back to 1703, which I am prepared to do but which may only be a temporary solution as eventually Windows will likely force the update again.

Any ideas? It's host-independent, and did not happen on my laptop which I updated at the same time. But the desktop which is my main Daw is now crippled - cannot run these plugins, though they scan fine, they just have no GUI. Open GL 2.1 is apparently installed and working, and the plugins worked fine on the same machine before the update, so it's not a hardware problem, it's Windows.

Thoughts? Anyone?
subtlearts
Aaaaah!

I have a pretty old desktop with a pretty old graphics card (Nvidia GeForce 7300). However, it works and does what I need it to, or at least it did, until Windows 1709 ('fall creators') update screwed it up. Now plugins from Waves, Melda, and Unfiltered Audio, which I am pretty reliant on, load with a blank UI. The Unfiltered ones I can get working by disabling the GPU acceleration, but the others I can't - Waves because apparently it's impossible, and Melda because it evidently can't be turned off except from the settings panel on the plugin, which I cannot load.

I've done a bunch of research on this and can't find a solution other than rolling back to 1703, which I am prepared to do but which may only be a temporary solution as eventually Windows will likely force the update again.

Any ideas? It's host-independent, and did not happen on my laptop which I updated at the same time. But the desktop which is my main Daw is now crippled - cannot run these plugins, though they scan fine, they just have no GUI. Open GL 2.1 is apparently installed and working, and the plugins worked fine on the same machine before the update, so it's not a hardware problem, it's Windows.

Thoughts? Anyone?



Before rolling back, try installing the latest driver for your video card directly from nVidia. I'm not running Win10, but I always get my nVidia drivers straight from nVidia, and have seen many video related issues resolved by grabbing the latest driver from them. My card is an older GeForce 9800GT, and has had issues playing full 1080p video when using anything but the drivers downloaded from nVidia.
2017/12/29 02:42:41
highlandermak
Ha , when I get home I'll post the link however I have a thread with microsoft about the issue. It installs on most fine however on some systems it causes 4 hour start up delays and never updates. Still have not resolved it and just stuck at restart required on 1703. If I select shut down it shuts down and reboots fine. However if I select restart it gets stuck on the reboot and has taken anywhere from 2 to 6 hours to boot up with no sucesfull update.
2017/12/29 03:05:58
.
You could get a new video card, depending on what slots you have you can get them reasonably cheap, like an nvidia GT 710 (about $70AU, maybe $50 US) If you have an onboard video option you could disable you nvidia card and see if the onboard works (Latest driver) if it does you could make the changes required for the plugins you mention above and then revert to your nividia, just some suggestions.
2017/12/29 05:34:41
Sycraft
I'd consider doing the new video card suggestion. I know buying new hardware for something that isn't a direct benefit sucks but it will give you less trouble down the road and probably fix your issue. There's only so long nVidia supports their videocards with new drivers. The current drivers support the new Titan V (and other upcoming Volta cards), the 1000, 900, 700, 600, 500, and 400 series. That's 8 years or so worth of cards.
 
The most recent card they support in Widows 10 at all is the 8 series, which are about 10 years old. Those they do have office 10 drivers for, but they haven't been updated in a year so they don't officially support 1709. The 7 series that you have, well that support stopped with Windows 8 as it is about a 12 year old card at this point. They did give MS a basic driver that is included with 10 for them, I think, but there's no official support, no drivers on their site.
 
So not a bad idea to think of an upgrade. 12 year old hardware is pushing it for computers. Plus graphics cards have progressed a lot since then. In particular there was a big change with how they worked in the 8 series, basically a refactoring of the API. What that means is that modern OSes expect things that those old cards just don't have the capability to provide. Thus a new one is a good idea, and should last a nice long time. I recommend a 1050, as they aren't too expensive, and don't need additional power to run. Should last you a good bit.
 
Likewise plugins may start needing newer OpenGL versions. The API changes didn't just apply to DirectX, the native Windows 3D, but to OpenGL as well. Old GPUs just can't handle new OpenGL versions, and plugins may decide they wish to use that.
 
Also if you have a regular processor (meaning not high end desktop or server) that is reasonably new, it may well have better onboard graphics. An Intel 4000 series or above will have a GPU that has newer features, and may even be a tad faster, onboard.
2017/12/29 09:56:52
subtlearts
Hey all, thanks for the replies and suggestions!
 
I have definitely tried reinstalling the video drivers... but this card is pretty old and the latest driver (direct from NVidia) was already installed and reinstalling it didn't seem to make a difference. 
 
It's strange because it is not a case of the plugins needing newer OpenGL than what the card can do - they were working perfectly well before the Windows update, and nothing has changed - same card, same drivers, same OpenGL version - but I guess it's a big, complex update and changed something fundamental in the way it's addressing the hardware. Before rolling back I will try disabling the video card and seeing what (if anything) the onboard graphics can do, but I rather doubt that's a good long-term solution either. 
 
So I will definitely consider looking for a newer, still-supported video card - I do consider it a 'direct benefit' to continue to be able to work on this machine as opposed to buying a new system (or simply not using any plugins that aren't working - abandoning my whole investment in Waves and Melda is not an acceptable compromise for me). The problem is the motherboard is also quite old so I'm not sure what newer cards will be supported - I'm not exactly a hardware expert so it'll take some research. But if I can get this system back up to speed (and I use the term relatively) it would be worth a small investment.
 
Obviously at a certain stage I would be running up against the point of diminishing returns, and a new system would deliver much more value for money. However if I can nurse this machine along for a bit longer for not much money, it would be great. Of course it's old enough at this point that pretty much anything can go at any time, so I don't want to sink a lot of cash into its maintenance either! It's a dilemma. 
 
2017/12/29 13:50:30
TheMaartian
I, too, had to replace an old ATI video card.
 
I bought a Gigabyte card. There are several video card manufacturers that incorporate an nVidia chipset, and they are NOT created equal. I've found Gigabyte to be the best.
 
Since I have no interest in gaming, that simplified my requirements for the video adapter. I picked the GeForce GTX 750 Ti. Not expensive. Very quiet with typical DAW loads. My guess is that it's been replaced by something a little newer, but it's a very capable card with plenty of life left. The driver for it is updated almost monthly.
2017/12/29 14:51:50
cclarry
Try changing Dislplay resolutions so you can access the setting
and then change back.  Usually it's a "Screen Resolution" problem,
and may not be your card per se, just the current resolution you
have selected.  Just a thought...
2017/12/29 20:22:19
Sycraft
The good news is your card is a PCIe card, which means that all new cards use the same socket. While it isn't as fast as newer PCIe slots, that doesn't matter. PCIe is 100% forward and backward compatible so you can put a new card in an old socket no problem. Only real issue could be power, your PSU may not have the addon power the higher power cards need. Hence my 1050 recommendation. Needs no addon power, and is actually a super capable card. It is the kind of thing you might well transfer to a new system, if you build one in the next couple years.
 
You can also look at getting an older card used if possible. If you can find a cheap 750 those also don't need additional power and being 2 generations old can sometimes be found used for very little. Despite being two generations old it supports basically all of the newest tech (except for DirectX 12 and Vulkan, which are currently relevant only to very few games) and nVidia should support it for 4-6 more years.
2017/12/30 14:15:59
subtlearts
Hey all thanks again for input/advice. I ended up picking up an MSI GeForce 710 for the princely sum of €40, it was the cheapest supported/compatible one at the local computer shop. I could probably have found something cheaper online but this was around the corner, in stock, new with warranty etc so I just bit the bullet. Once I got the driver installed it works perfectly and is probably a bit snappier than the old one into the bargain. I don't know about the power requirements but it seems to work and I did spring for a good PSU in this rig. Sadly I need a different adapter to get my second monitor up and running (different ports on the new card) but that I will order online as it's a *lot* cheaper than anything I can buy locally, plus I'm not exactly going to be at peak productivity the next couple of days anyway - I have shows at night including a NYE gala that will probably continue into the not-so-wee hours, which will in turn necessitate some next-day recovery time... 
 
Sycraft I'm sure the others you recommended would likely be better but I'm honestly just looking to extend the life of this old machine another year or two at the minimum possible cost, as this is a kind of uncertain time and I'm not sure if more significant hardware investment makes a lot of sense... the next machine might well need to be a decently-powered laptop for portability...
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