burgerproduction
 
 
My question is, is it worth buying into a high end deal for Presonus or Mixcraft or any of the others if I mainly work with the VSTs which are not locked to Sonar?
The sound editing tools that come with Presonus seem good (I've demo'ed them) but I'm not sure if I need the synths (I have Dimensions and apture etc..). Mixcraft might be a good fit, but is it good enough for Mastering? Sampletude looks huge, but do I need the bloatware?
 
 

There is some benefit to keeping Sonar as a way to use both 32 and 64 bit VSTs. I have both Presonus Studio One 3 and Mixcraft Pro 8. Of those two Presonus is more capable for most chores. Not that Mixcraft is a bad program. I simply like SO3 better. 
 
Back to my first comment, many daws are not allowing 32 bit VSTs in their new versions. Ableton 10 is 64 bit only. Cubase is now 64 bit only. I'm not sure about Presonus SO3. I wouldn't be surprised if they have not also gone in the same direction. Something to keep in mind if you have a bunch of 32 bit VSTs. The question is probably more about what you have in your VST collection.
My VST scans show WAY less when only scanning 64bit VSTs. Moving from Sonar will cost me some of my cherished plugins.

burgerproduction
Perhaps Reaper is the best bet?

Reaper has several unique properties:
* it will never fail authorization/re-installation (after OS updates, hardware changes, stolen computer, etc.). You can even make a portable install on USB stick (unfortunately not all 3d party VSTs support that).
* if something does not work as you like, there is a big chance you can change the behavior in preferences or by extentions
* no bloatware (but there is basic FX plug-ins set, works in any DAW).
* intensive protection against buggy/unstable plug-ins
* project files are text files. Reaper itself has minimal dependency from OS. That means high probability you are able to open your old project files in 10-30 years
* there are 2 programmers which develop it (not sure about the third...), both are proved to be good. They know the code, so there are better chances for optimal implementation then in a "corporate" development environment
 
(** if Sonar projects will ever work in some other DAW, that DAW is going to be Reaper. That possibility is under investigation, so I am not yet sure about it **)
 
After ProTools... Reaper also shows the waveform with applied gain envelope.
 
Consequences:
* no key signature for project, means no automatic pitch adaptation for loops
* no own Control Surfaces, means it is not deep integrated with any controller out of the box
* obviously there are some other features of particular DAWs which are not or not yet available in Reaper. "Absolute must" list should be checked before considering, but that is true for any DAW.
* simplicity, usability and performance oriented interface (no fancy OpenGL 3D animations, no well prepared forced toolbars, menus and the number of options is huge ). High customization confuse new users, some defaults are questionable
 
In general, if prescribed by authors way to create music without learning anything, words like "industry standards" and "designer graphics" have no value, I think Reaper is the best bet for almost any use case.

Thanks everyone. You've all been really, really helpful. 
 
As the weeks roll on, and Sonar keeps on working, I'm feeling less inclined to impulse upgrade. I was all set on Presonus, but I'm now leaning to Reaper. I like the fact it has a no frills price. No fishhook deal offered by them. I foresee a huge learning curve, but....I've done it once, I can do it again.
I must say, I found Presonus really nice to use, but perhaps their Artist version is enough for me, in which case I could just get it bundled with a new soundcard. If I invest the money in Pro I'll be getting a tone of stuff I don't really need.
I like the idea of investing in a smaller company such as Mixcraft, but the bundled synths and offer of Freesound loops turns me off a bit. I admire them for their customer support etc.... I'm just not sure if it will see me right for years to come (like sonar 8 did until SPLAT). I wish them luck though. I admire them.
Finally, Samplitude looks like one massive bundle of stuff I might never touch. I've got audio cleaning software, mastering software....do I really need it? It's a great offer, but it's like buying a mountain of books just because they're cheap....will I ever have time to read them?
 
In truth, SPLAT has really grown on me and I would love to keep using it, so I might just invest in some new drum sounds for Addictive Drums and then get Reaper when I've got more time. (I'm moving house at the mo....time is not good)
It feels kind of ****ty that I'm feeling pressured to buy into other DAWs just because the company I love has stopped development of the DAW I love. So I might just save my cash for toys I would really love to get and hope (& pray) that SPLAT stays stable for at least a few years to come.
 
BTW: Starise point about 32bit VSTs was very relevent. I'll use Trilogy and BFD until it is no longer possible, Sonar lets me, so moving to a DAW that may block them is a bad move in my book. Call me behind the times, but I love my old progs. *Note: I've just checked out the Presonus forums and it does appear to be an issue. You need JBridge, but people are reporting hit and miss results.
 
BBTW: Has anyone else noticed that Samplitude appears to have been hacked and is up online with Keygen. This may be the reason for such a ridiculous deal - product dumping. *Note: I'm not condoning Cracked software. All my stuff is legit and paid for - hence the reason why I don't want to ditch it.
 

35mm
OK for those accusing me of being biased or thinking that my suspicions of DAW vote rigging are a sign of my insanity etc. Here is an image clipped from the graph of poll results during one of the voting patterns that made me suspicious. At the top and the bottom, you see sections of the standard voting pattern which is representative of what the pattern was usually like. Inbetween those you see an unbroken line of loads of S1 votes that come in in a short period during which the view counter on the poll forum thread hardly increases. A similar pattern occurred at the same time of day over a few days during the 12 days of polling.
https://ibb.co/i4OUBb
I think any sensible person would become a tad suspicious when faced with these facts. This is why I suggested that S1 is the most popular choice even if the suspicious votes are removed, however, the margin of its popularity i.e. the number of votes in my view, couldn't be depended on due to the facts I have presented here.

 
Actually I've been surprised and a little suspicious of Studio One's ranking in every poll that I've seen in recent years. It seems to have risen to the top from nowhere in such a short time.

The reason for that is because Studio One is simply very very good and for some strange reason many Sonar users just cannot see it or will accept it.

Jeff Evans
The reason for that is because Studio One is simply very very good and for some strange reason many Sonar users just cannot see it or will accept it.

I picked up the Studio One Pro crossgrade deal last month, and so far I can see nothing wrong it.  I may still pick up Cubase Elements for $99 to have a MIDI editor with notation and a chord track, but as far as a DAW for mixing, I think that you cannot go wrong with S1 for the price.  I am very interested in further learning about the arranger track and the scratchpad. 

Don't forget Notion comes with Studio One for $50 or so.

You can buy a Presonus audio card and the Artist version of Studio One will come to you

Jeff Evans
The reason for that is because Studio One is simply very very good and for some strange reason many Sonar users just cannot see it or will accept it.

After reading/watching/looking at it, I also think that Studio One is a good DAW. Its mastering approach, tight integration with own hardware, simplicity for new comers and overall similarity to Sonar was mentioned many times.
 
But it is not a "standard" like ProTools or Cubase, has no established "distinct flavor" like Ableton or Tracktion, almost closed unlike Reaper, not supported by a monster like Logic and comes from Audio interfaces company with controversial devices support.
I mean I do not see many points to call it "the best" and so I do not find strange that many Sonar users are looking in different directions.
 

Sonar was never an industry standard either. In fact far from it. Despite Studio One being so young I predict the user base is far higher already. The age of the industry standard is over. Sonar also never had a distinct flavour either. Just a normal Daw but that is not a disadvantage either. There is plenty to dislike with Ableton too.

The Studio One design team is also pretty removed from the audio interface side of Presonus. They are a bunch of German coders living in Hamburg. Much closer to Cubase in fact than most realise. What they are doing amazingly well though is integrating the software with the amazing hardware side such as the Quantum. A relationship that in fact Sonar never had.

Studio One will never hold you back realising your musical ideas. You just need some good ideas to start with.