• SONAR
  • Better support for working with MIDI-key switches (High up on my wishlist!)
2013/09/05 08:25:12
Loptec
The key switch-function has become a standard in today's more advanced sample libraries. The strange thing is that this standard hasn't been followed by the DAWs. Why is that? It's very frustrating since new libraries tend to have too many key switches to remember and it's not very effective having to open the VST everytime you want to edit midi, just to see where the key switches are.
 
What I'd like to have is a diatonic keylayout, but with the key switches included in the Piano Roll View.
 
I think it's very strange this isn't implemented in Sonar, since we ALMOST have everything needed already! We have the abilibty to show the keys as deatonic OR with names of our own choosing (originally meant for drum kits).
 
I think it would be awesome if we were able to pick a combo of these two, called "Diatonic with key switches" or something. This key-map would look like an ordinary diatonic keyboard, until you added a new note name (like you already can in non-diatonic ones) and named it to what ever this key articulation is doing.
 
With this function we would have the nice diatonic key layouts, but with explaining text on the notes with key-switches on them. I created an explaining image of how it maybe cloud look like. In the image I also added the functions to choose different colors for the different key switches to get ability to visually group them into (for example) bends and such
 
This may or may not already be kind of possible to do with drum maps though(?) .. I haven't worked at all with drum maps, so I'm not sure.. Is tehre anyone how's worked with key switches using drum maps that can explain if it's possible and (if it is) also how?
 
Nevertheless, I think it would make it even easier if it were implemented directly into the PRV! It would at least make my life ALOT easier! :)
 
Please, Cakewalk! ... I'm sure I'm not alone wanting something like this
 

2013/09/05 08:31:59
icontakt
I record notes for key switches on a separate track and use a drum map there. It's really easy.
2013/09/05 08:38:25
icontakt
...like this.
 

2013/09/05 09:08:58
Loptec
Well. I work alot with MIDI..
In my latest project I already have 20 MIDI-tracks so far (all separate instruments) and 10 of these tracks have patches with key switches.. Your method would add another 10 MIDI-tracks to the project which would make everything very confusing IMHO. 
 
I also like to keep all my MIDI-tracks in one track folder, so when I edit MIDI I have everything there right in front of me. Working in this track folder with 30 MIDI tracks where 10 of them just are key switch-tracks that you have to select along with the "main" MIDI-track, I think, would get very confusing after a while working with large projects :/
2013/09/05 09:29:38
icontakt
Sorry for posting a screenshot of a different daw below (couldn't find a good example project in Sonar) but this is how I manage tracks containing controller data only (key switches, expression pedal, etc.)
I use white color for all these clips so it's easy to identify them, and in Sonar you can just hide all these white tracks and save the layout as a different screenset. In my case Screenset01 shows all tracks, Screenset02 hides all controller tracks, etc. I personally find this very convenient.
 

2013/09/05 09:55:20
Loptec
Yeah. I understand and see your point. :)
Working with a large number of MIDI-tracks though and (like me) liking the idea of having all MIDI-tracks in one folder still makes this method far from optimal though.
 
My main point from the start was that; I find it strange that the DAWs haven't implemented better support for key-switches even though it's been around for many many years now..
 
There are workarounds, yes. But why should we have to have workaround for something that is a standard in MIDI-editing today? Especially since these workarounds don't work for everyone because of different work flows etc.
2013/09/05 10:58:16
bitflipper
You don't have to put the keyswitches into a separate track to use drum maps. It just makes it easier to see and edit articulation changes, plus it's quicker to throw together an ad hoc map when you only have to define a handful of note values. Once you've created the map you can save it as a preset so it's a one-time chore.
 
 
2013/09/05 11:01:45
icontakt

 
Maybe this is what you want to do? Both notes and key switches on a single track.
 

 
You need to create a new drum map and set it up like this (the example here is a kontakt instrument on MIDI Ch.6)
2013/09/05 12:35:54
Loptec
Yeah alright. I've tried setting up a drum map now. The only reasonable way of using drum maps for key switches is IMO with two tracks. One for the notes and one for the key switches.
 
Having the diatonic view there is essential (for me anyway) when working with tonal instruments which makes it impossible to have the notes (piano keys) and key switches visible in the same view.. (For ppl that don't need the diatonic view when editing tonal instruments I'd recommend using instrument definitions instead of drum maps for setting up this though. With instrument definitions you only need to add the key switches and the rest of the notes will appear as numbers, instead of having to add all keys as you'd have to do using a drum map)
 
And as I said earlier working with larger projects makes it unmanageable to use two tracks for each MIDI-instrument.. :/
I find it strange that no one but me seems to think it's strange that the MIDI-editing tools haven't developed more for todays instruments and that I'm the only one that seem to want to have a function like this implemented.. :/
 
Check out the image in my first post once again.. Having the diatonic view like this and the key switches right there in the PRV! I'm the only one who thinks this would be awesome!? I'm the only one that think it's strange we don't have this already?? Really? =/
2013/09/05 14:58:54
geetsifly
Hi Samuel,
 
great topic.  One thing I notice while trying to work with key switches recorded or painted into a midi track is that if you are listening and stop during a key switch rewind to a point between key switches and listen again the plugin may not then be playing the intended note articulation.
 
It would be good in your proposed solution if the software was smart enough to send the previous keyswitch even though the now time might not be sitting on top of it.
 
Because of this issue, lately I have been putting the different artiiculation sets on separate midi channels and going back and changing the midi channel for individual notes by hand or recording on that channel to get the intended result. This method is unsuitable for a player good enought to fire off keyswiches in realtime. I am not that good ;)
 
I dislike the method mentioned above but I get the correct notes and articulations every time.
 
George
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