SilverBlueMedallion

Anderton
I know people hate when I suggest workarounds, but...
 
Couldn't you render the audio rather than freeze, then archive the synth track? More work, but it would eliminate freezing as a problem. 
 
And now I'm really grasping at straws, but what happens if you increase the latency? I had to bounce some Pro Tools stuff so I could create something suitable for SONAR, but had to increase latency to 1024 samples before it would bounce reliably.

Yes I could render the audio, however, I may not be done with it.   I can't commit my synth parts until ALL synth parts are recorded.   
 

 
But if you archive the MIDI instrument, then it's disconnected from the CPU and therefore saves resources, but you can get it back at any time by unarchiving it. Freezing basically just automates the render/archive for freezing, and unarchive/delete render for unfreezing. I'd be curious if the same thing happens if you freeze "manually."
 
Did you try MIDI learning something for that control then forgetting it?
 
The fact that it doesn't happen with a new project would indicate some kind of interaction, but I have no idea what that would be...

Anderton

SilverBlueMedallion

Anderton
I know people hate when I suggest workarounds, but...
 
Couldn't you render the audio rather than freeze, then archive the synth track? More work, but it would eliminate freezing as a problem. 
 
And now I'm really grasping at straws, but what happens if you increase the latency? I had to bounce some Pro Tools stuff so I could create something suitable for SONAR, but had to increase latency to 1024 samples before it would bounce reliably.

Yes I could render the audio, however, I may not be done with it.   I can't commit my synth parts until ALL synth parts are recorded.   
 

 
But if you archive the MIDI instrument, then it's disconnected from the CPU and therefore saves resources, but you can get it back at any time by unarchiving it. Freezing basically just automates the render/archive for freezing, and unarchive/delete render for unfreezing. I'd be curious if the same thing happens if you freeze "manually."
 
Did you try MIDI learning something for that control then forgetting it?
 
The fact that it doesn't happen with a new project would indicate some kind of interaction, but I have no idea what that would be...

 
 
yea I agree.  It is something with THIS project.   No MIDI Learn or CC stuff going on here either.  not in this track.
 
and like I posted, it isn't a freezing problem... the problem happens when I save and then re-open the file too.   The synth parameters simply dont save correctly.

However, maybe you are opening my eyes to this archiving method.   

I assume 30 audio tracks is much lighter on resources than 30 synth tracks, correct?
 
Or wait, I can still use freezing to achieve that, right?

SilverBlueMedallion
However, maybe you are opening my eyes to this archiving method.   

I assume 30 audio tracks is much lighter on resources than 30 synth tracks, correct?

 
Waaaaaaaay lighter!!
 

Or wait, I can still use freezing to achieve that, right?

Yes, but as I said, freezing really just automates the render+archive process. I mentioned it in case the freezing process itself is causing a problem for some reason, but apparently that's not the source of the issue.

Anderton

SilverBlueMedallion
However, maybe you are opening my eyes to this archiving method.   

I assume 30 audio tracks is much lighter on resources than 30 synth tracks, correct?

 
Waaaaaaaay lighter!!
 

Or wait, I can still use freezing to achieve that, right?

Yes, but as I said, freezing really just automates the render+archive process. I mentioned it in case the freezing process itself is causing a problem for some reason, but apparently that's not the source of the issue.

 
I think I understand... are you saying freezing doesn't save on system resources as much as render+archive?  Or is it equivalent as far as system resources is concerned, because I find freezing so much simpler.
 
Thank You!

SilverBlueMedallion
 
I think I understand... are you saying freezing doesn't save on system resources as much as render+archive?  Or is it equivalent as far as system resources is concerned, because I find freezing so much simpler.

They're equivalent.

Two points:
 
1. The VST spec absolutely mandates that if you select a (VST) preset and make changes to the settings, the changes are written to the preset in that instance of the plug-in without requiring saving.  It's a bonkers implementation, but it is what it is, and SONAR behaves "correctly" in this respect.
 
2. There is (bugs in a plug-in/host aside :-)) absolutely no need to save the current settings in a VST plug-in as a preset in order for them to be restored on re-load of the project - the plug-in's settings are stored directly in the project file.

I have seen this many times on all kinds of VST synths in SONAR - though inconsistently.  After freezing synths they are reloaded with a default patch rather than what they were frozen with. Saving the preset before freezing will not fix this. I am now careful to put the preset name in the midi track title before freezing so that I can recall it manually if need be.

kennywtelejazzI used to love freezing synths and then editing the frozen tracks ...More than once it was goodbye to all my hard work when it all went back to midi ...

 
Hehe yeh this has happened to me somewhat. I tend to export and re-import these days unless its purely to cut down on CPU overhead. Stuff like Omnisphere and Serum just wants to own my CPU no matter how much grunt I throw at them.
 

KPerry
...the changes are written to the preset in that instance of the plug-in without requiring saving.

Yes, but what if there is no instance, e.g. the plugin has been unloaded? Can SONAR still save the patch, independent of the VST? I do not know the answer to this, but I'm thinking that it's likely to be "no".
 

bitflipper

KPerry
...the changes are written to the preset in that instance of the plug-in without requiring saving.

Yes, but what if there is no instance, e.g. the plugin has been unloaded? Can SONAR still save the patch, independent of the VST? I do not know the answer to this, but I'm thinking that it's likely to be "no".

The instance is still there in the project file, just not "loaded" (for want of a better word) into working memory - SONAR needs to know what to reload (otherwise it couldn't even show in the Synth Rack as disabled :-)).