• SONAR
  • When do you go "into the box"? (p.3)
2017/01/01 10:13:29
Anderton
Sound on Sound magazine did a very interesting preamp "shootout" a few years back of multiple preamps at various price points. It involved blind testing so no one could think one logo sounded better than another logo (oops, I mean "preamp"). IIRC the hands-down winner was an ART preamp that cost $149 or something like that.
 
This isn't to say a quality preamp can't make an audible improvement difference. I bought a Radial Engineering direct box because the minute I plugged in my guitar, it delivered every nuance of the pickups. However, I think in many cases what causes someone to like one preamp over another is the presence of an input transformer. A truly high-quality input transformer is like a "magic component" that serves as a signal processor...similarly to how tubes or tape process the sound in a way people find desirable.
 
Back in the early days of digital I was visiting Wendy Carlos and she had one of those ancient Akai MG1212 digital recorders. I had never thought they sounded particularly good, but her studio sounded great. I asked her whether she'd replaced the electronics or something. She said no, but she had transformers in her mixer, which she had done on purpose for the sonic benefits. There was no question it made a difference. Wendy, being effing brilliant, then launched into a technical discussion of why transformers were so helpful in improving the sonics of digital.
 
Interestingly enough when SONAR introduced Console Emulation, my first reaction was "snake oil." I figured they just introduced a little bit of slightly different distortion in each channel so it would have a perceived wider soundstage and some non-linearities. I was very surprised after testing to find that there was a good input transformer emulation as well. You can hear this for yourself - crank up the drive all the way with bass. It's one of my favorite "effects" for bass, just as it was back in the day when I was plugging basses into DIs in analog studios.
 
 
2017/01/01 23:18:39
schwa
jpetersen
@Kev999: If hardware gates misfire, the take is lost.
I use gate (well, expander) plugs in post-processing, and do the sections that fail to trigger properly manually.
 
@schwa: I have a Mackie 1202 VLZ4 which I connect directly to the four line-ins of my interface (Tascam US1800).
 
I add in an Alesis Nanoverb should the artist need a confidence reverb.
 
The signal that goes to the interface is taken directly from the insert jacks, so directly after the input gain. No EQ nor reverb lands on the recording. Bone-dry. 
 
This way I can leave it up to the artist to set their own headphone level, EQ and reverb. Just as long as they don't touch the input gain!
 
The VLZ4 preamps are superb. They are quieter than the self-noise of my Neumann TLM103.
 
I also have a bunch of modified Behringer mini mixers (signal tapped after the input gain) for less critical stuff, like guitar amps and drums.


I'm actually aware of the VLZ4 preamps and like them.  I have the smaller 8 channel VLZ4 mixer which I use with a separate iPad recording setup. 
 
I use the VLZ4 with a Nanoverb (in the FX bus) and an RNC in the insert.  All this goes into a Focusrite iPad dock, and is a solid upgrade from the included preamps and the Behringer mixer that preceded it.  The VLZ4/RNC/Nanoverb front end is an awesome solution - flexible and a bargain.
 
I might have decided to use the Mackie in both setups, but I am lazy and dislike re-plumbing.
 
 
2017/01/01 23:43:29
Kev999
jpetersen
@Kev999: If hardware gates misfire, the take is lost.
 

 
I'm not sure what you mean. How can a gate misfire?
2017/01/01 23:48:34
schwa
Anderton
Sound on Sound magazine did a very interesting preamp "shootout" a few years back of multiple preamps at various price points. It involved blind testing so no one could think one logo sounded better than another logo (oops, I mean "preamp"). IIRC the hands-down winner was an ART preamp that cost $149 or something like that.
 
This isn't to say a quality preamp can't make an audible improvement difference. I bought a Radial Engineering direct box because the minute I plugged in my guitar, it delivered every nuance of the pickups. However, I think in many cases what causes someone to like one preamp over another is the presence of an input transformer. A truly high-quality input transformer is like a "magic component" that serves as a signal processor...similarly to how tubes or tape process the sound in a way people find desirable.
 
Back in the early days of digital I was visiting Wendy Carlos and she had one of those ancient Akai MG1212 digital recorders. I had never thought they sounded particularly good, but her studio sounded great. I asked her whether she'd replaced the electronics or something. She said no, but she had transformers in her mixer, which she had done on purpose for the sonic benefits. There was no question it made a difference. Wendy, being effing brilliant, then launched into a technical discussion of why transformers were so helpful in improving the sonics of digital.
 
Interestingly enough when SONAR introduced Console Emulation, my first reaction was "snake oil." I figured they just introduced a little bit of slightly different distortion in each channel so it would have a perceived wider soundstage and some non-linearities. I was very surprised after testing to find that there was a good input transformer emulation as well. You can hear this for yourself - crank up the drive all the way with bass. It's one of my favorite "effects" for bass, just as it was back in the day when I was plugging basses into DIs in analog studios.
 
 


I read that SOS article before I got my SSL, partially because it was highlighted in my research into the SSL unit itself.  Its a good read, I learned a few things from it. 
 
One of the things "missing" from that article was that all of the preamps were fed a healthy input, which is where mic preamps seem to fall down in my (limited) experience.  Many of the pres I have used sound fine up to about noon on the dial, but not so much after. 
 
My SSL unit came in "2nd"to the ($250) ART unit in the article, which contributed to my decision to pick it up.  I also bought it used @ about 50% of retail (minty).  The SSL isn't regarded as the best ever, I might have picked an API or Focusrite (or ART!), but sometimes you pick the deal at hand.
 
In practice, it seems the thing I like best is that the SSL has 75Db of gain, which seems higher than some.  It lets me keep even low gain (SC guitars, SM7) inputs healthy and under noon.  I don't know if it has an input transformer, and haven't experimented with the higher gain "character" settings yet.
 
I'm also a bit suspicious of the console emulation feature, I have some mixes pending, and I'm going to compare  them with it turned on and off.
2017/01/02 00:03:59
Leee
chuckebaby
 
Without high jacking this thread I am curious about how many left handed people use their mouse with their right hand or is it only me ? It came out of necessity more than habit.


I'm left handed, and use my left hand for the mouse.   It's okay when I'm in my home office/studio, but it was a PITA when I shared computers at work.  People would always grumble about having to put the mouse back on the right side of the keyboard  (even at my own desk!)


2017/01/02 06:13:18
Sanderxpander
Kev999
jpetersen
@Kev999: If hardware gates misfire, the take is lost.
 

 
I'm not sure what you mean. How can a gate misfire?

By not opening when it should, maybe the soft start or ending of a word etc.
2017/01/02 07:02:41
Bristol_Jonesey
Sanderxpander
Kev999
jpetersen
@Kev999: If hardware gates misfire, the take is lost.
 

 
I'm not sure what you mean. How can a gate misfire?

By not opening when it should, maybe the soft start or ending of a word etc.

Yes or closing too early when the Hold parameter isn't set correctly.
I cannot envisage a scenario when I would employ a hardware gate prior to getting the signal into SONAR.
You run the risk of ruining the take and gain nothing that cannot done afterwards when mixing
2017/01/02 08:29:55
southpaw3473
chuckebaby
Without high jacking this thread I am curious about how many left handed people use their mouse with their right hand or is it only me ? It came out of necessity more than habit.

Chuck,
I'm the most left-handed person I've ever met!!! I couldn't even pick up a mouse with my right hand, nonetheless use it that way!
2017/01/02 10:02:58
townstra
I like to try to bring a clean signal in as well as a processed one to different tracks so I can have the maximum available options when I comes time to mix it (when it's practical).
2017/01/02 21:11:26
Kev999
Bristol_Jonesey
Sanderxpander
Kev999
jpetersen
@Kev999: If hardware gates misfire, the take is lost.

I'm not sure what you mean. How can a gate misfire?

By not opening when it should, maybe the soft start or ending of a word etc.

Yes or closing too early when the Hold parameter isn't set correctly.
I cannot envisage a scenario when I would employ a hardware gate prior to getting the signal into SONAR.
You run the risk of ruining the take and gain nothing that cannot done afterwards when mixing

 
I'm always careful with the settings to avoid such occurrences.
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