• SONAR
  • Platinum: How do I record vocals with reverb without tracking reverb? (p.2)
2016/12/27 00:13:32
RSMCGUITAR
Have you lowered your buffer as low as it'll go without crackling?
2016/12/27 00:46:24
Kamikaze
On the preSonus there is is a inputs/playback knob. If it works like my Quad, the 'input'  allows you to hear the direct signal before it hits the Computer. The 'Playback' is from the Computer. The echo you may be hearing is from the knob being in the central position and playing both. Yoyu are hearing two signals, with a delay applied to one due to the time it takes to go through the computer, compared to the direct 'input' signal. This delay is called latency.
 
If you can get thge latency low enough on your machine as RMS suggests
 
'Have you lowered your buffer as low as it'll go without crackling?'
 
Then you can monitor direct from the computer without using the playback. Swing that knob to Playback, and you are sorted. No echo caused by having two signals.
 
If you can't get the latency low enough. And that may be just for now, whilst you figure out any stumbling blocks with your set up. Then you want to leave that knob in the twelve o'clock position. But you just want the reverb from the reverb bus to play, but not hear the track play itself as you record (as you are using the 'playback' on you soundcard for this signal).
2016/12/27 00:57:52
Sanderxpander
brundlefly
The first two answers are the opposite of what you want. By default FX are applied to the output of a track so the input is always recorded dry unless you go out of your way to use a workaround like one of the above to capture the FX.
 
If you're capturing FX without intending to, I would guess you're using the onboard sound system to record, and the input in the onboard sound's mixer app is set to 'What U Hear' or 'Stereo Mix', which means it's recording from the sound systems output with the FX applied. In that case, you need to choose Mic or Line In as the input.

Actually both suggestions would work perfectly. If your interface has reverb it's almost never passed on to the DAW but instead used for direct monitoring. And the way DeeringAmps set up the routing you will record dry vocals and have a bus or aux track with reverb. It's true that you COULD record reverb to an aux track but not the way it's set up there.

If the interface does not have any reverb of its own the easiest way of doing this is making sure latency is low and doing everything in Sonar. Reduce buffer size as much as possible without getting popping/crackling/dropouts, turn off direct monitoring from the interface, create a track to record your vocals on, turn on input echo and put a reverb on it (or use a bus or aux track as was suggested and put the verb on that, good practice for mixing later on).
2016/12/27 01:00:29
SuperG
Not sure, but if it's doubling, make sure you don't have any sort of direct monitoring enabled on the audio box. If you do, it will play along side of the SONAR monitored track, which will have a slight delay, giving that doubled sound. You can either monitor via SONAR with input echo enabled, or direct monitor via the interface, but not both at the same time.

The post about using an interface with comfort reverb built-in for direct monitoring is a good one. It allows you to listen with reverb, with no delay from round tripping through the daw, and still record dry. I use a Motu Ultra lite Mk 3 to do just that. Consider an upgraded interface in the future if you can.
2016/12/27 01:03:52
RSMCGUITAR
Sanderxpander

Actually both suggestions would work perfectly. If your interface has reverb it's almost never passed on to the DAW but instead used for direct monitoring. And the way DeeringAmps set up the routing you will record dry vocals and have a bus or aux track with reverb. It's true that you COULD record reverb to an aux track but not the way it's set up there.


Why would you need the bus though?


2016/12/27 01:20:01
Sanderxpander
You don't NEED it but it's common practice to put a reverb on a bus and use a post fader send from a track to the bus to set the reverb level. This allows you both to conserve CPU power (because you can use the same reverb on multiple tracks) and to use the same virtual space on multiple tracks (rather than ten different ones by inserting a reverb on each track). As CPU power increased and in the box mixing took over from outboard stuff, this has become less of a necessity and more of a rule of thumb, but it's generally considered good practice unless you are specifically ignoring the "same space" thing for some effect.

That said, if you want to be quick and just record some vocals before passing the file on for someone else to mix, you might as well put the reverb on the track and skip a step.
2016/12/27 01:42:35
dlayna
Where in the preferences do I change that?  Is it under "Driver Settings or Sync and Caching?"
 
The one under Sync and Caching is set to 256 for both Playback I/O & Recording I/O.
 
Thanks - D'Layna
2016/12/27 01:55:03
dlayna
Hi Dean,
 
So I followed your steps and used Sonitus Reverb and it was better, but not perfect sounding.  I decided to use my UAD EMT-140 Plate Reverb and it sounded much better AND the doubling effect was not so present.  I also changed the gain to my mic-pre to 20 and the output a little higher.
 
I'm definitely going to have to play with this because I write with 3 vocalists and we all have different timbres going on. 
 
By default I'm a funk soul singer, another is RNB/Neo Soul and the other is Dark/Sultry Soul.  That means I have to find something that will hopefully work with all.  On my old Lexicon I used the Small Plate reverb or Tight.
 
I hope one day Cakewalk puts out a video that shows us how to set up in different ways.  I learn so much faster by watching someone else. 
 
Would an external device be better? If so, do you have any suggestions?
 
Thank you so much for all your help :)
 
Razorwit
Hi dlayna,

If I'm understanding you correctly you'd like to hear some reverb on a voice while recording but not have that reverb "print" to your track...what some folks call a "comfort reverb". I'm also assuming from your earlier posts about hearing your voice doubled that you're using direct monitoring from your interface and so hearing two copies of your voice when you enable input monitoring. Here's one way to do what I think you're asking:
 
1. Create the audio track that you'll be recording to and select your microphone input.
2. Add a bus with a reverb on it and create a send from the audio track you just created to that bus.
3. Click the button that says "POST" next to the send so it is no longer lit.
4. Pull the fader for the audio track all the way down and enable input monitoring.
 
Now you should be hearing the direct signal from your interface along with the reverb that's getting sent to the bus. Make sure that your reverb effect is set to fully wet or you'll hear some dry signal as well.
Hope that helps.
 
Dean




2016/12/27 02:14:19
dlayna
Hi, thanks for responding.
 
For the most part, I provide dry vocals and let the producer add the effects...but that's only because I trust them :)
 
I will add the LA-2A or 1176 compressors and some delay and reverb for my playback listening pleasure :)
 
D'Layna
 
Sanderxpander
You don't NEED it but it's common practice to put a reverb on a bus and use a post fader send from a track to the bus to set the reverb level. This allows you both to conserve CPU power (because you can use the same reverb on multiple tracks) and to use the same virtual space on multiple tracks (rather than ten different ones by inserting a reverb on each track). As CPU power increased and in the box mixing took over from outboard stuff, this has become less of a necessity and more of a rule of thumb, but it's generally considered good practice unless you are specifically ignoring the "same space" thing for some effect.

That said, if you want to be quick and just record some vocals before passing the file on for someone else to mix, you might as well put the reverb on the track and skip a step.



 
 
2016/12/27 02:17:27
dlayna
dannyjmusic
Do you have reverb on the interface that you are using? If you do, you can listen to your mic with effects before it gets to the computer. 
 

 
Hi Danny, by interface, do you mean my DAW or something else?
 
Thanks in advance :)
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