• SONAR
  • Home studio recommendation needed
2016/12/20 09:55:03
occide
Hi there!
 
tl;dr I'm looking for a home studio setup that is fun to use. I can totally see a scenario where I spend $1000 on the wrong stuff and stop making music right away cause it sounds bad. I'm not afraid in using a "complicated DAW" cause I've done that in the past for a while.
 
Please allow me to introduce myself with a quick "music" bio: I've been into making music for almost a decade back in the 90s/2000s. Back then I've used an old version of Cubase VST along side with some free plugins. I was pretty jealous towards a friend who had a complete home studio alongside with the recent Calkewalk, because I couldn't afford it. Unlike him I also made pretty bad music. :D
I stopped making music around the year 2005 because my wife and I started a family and I became selfemployed. So I totally lost track on whats' going on today, more than a decade later.
 
Now that I've settled and business is running well, but mainly due to the new "fair" pricing models of Cakewalk I'm considering to start with my old hobby again. I don't have a ton of money to spend so I'm interested in your opinions on what you think would be important for me.
 
What I own already:
- A very decent PC with an i7 6700k overclocked, 32GB of RAM, SSD, Terrabytes of storage and what not.
 
Main focus:
- I want to produce mainly "Minimal Dub" and "Ambient" music
- I don't need to record analogue music
- Want to go "all digital", I've sold most of my hardware and from my point of view most hardware would be pointless for me with the few exceptions mentioned below
- I want great sounding, virtual instruments with decent presets out-of-the-box
- Same for FX-plugins
- I know that I'm bad - so a good kind of "sound library" / premade midi loops is welcome
 
Nice-to-have:
- I want to be able to produce "jingles" / "intros" for Youtube videos as part of my main business
- I want to mix / post produce audio tracks for Youtube videos. Not sure if any of that's ever gonna happen anyway...
 
How should I split my budget?
- I need probably studio monitor speakers alongside with a fitting amp. Which budget monitors should I buy? Does the amp really matter for me?
- Do I need a separate sound card or can I go with the onboard sound chip (realtek)?
- Which version of Sonar would be good for me? I'd say "heck, Platinum, all the instruments" but I don't know if it's wise to spend most cash on that right away, especially cause of the "fluid upgrade possibilities" and I don't know if I really need platinum.
- I live in a noisy apartment so I don't know if "Mastering with headphones" is a thing - if so, please give hardware recommendations, too.
- EDIT: Do I need a keyboard? I'm not a very good keyboard player, more of a guitar player. Those small  2-octave-keyboards with some sampler-like pads seem appealing to me, but again I'm not sure if I really need that.
 
Thanks for your time and input and happy xmas holidays!
 
 
2016/12/20 10:12:53
AT
Sonar Platinum will supply all your recording needs, soft synths and effects.
 
You could use your on board sound card but there is a good possibility that it won't play well with heavily processed music. For about $100 you can get a decent musical "interface" that is designed to work with music at low latency (the time it takes for the "sound card" to digitize sound, put it into the computer, process it and spit it back out.  You can always see if there is a problem before you put money into an interface.
 
Doing videos requires another program.
 
You will most likely need a monitoring system. Today, many speakers come with the amp built-in, but yes, the amp is part of the monitoring system and a low powered amp can cause spikes trying to reproduce large amplitude changes which blows speakers - not too much good power.  I can't mix on headphones (tho I check with them), but others do.  Good headphones start at $100+, which is less than speakers.
 
Keyboards are still the preferred method of inputting midi, as are the drum pads.  Can't go wrong with one of those little pups.  I use Novation, which cost a little more but I like the keybed.  If you are not a keyboard player and don't care you can save some money.
 
have fun.
 
@
2016/12/20 10:29:28
Zargg
Hi, and welcome to this forum. As an owner of SONAR Platinum (lifetime), I can really recommend it. It has "all you need" to do what you are asking. But I also think you would be totally ok with Music CreatorHome Studio or Artist. For me, the biggest advantage of going with SONAR Platinum, is that you get lifetime updates, and it comes with a lot of bundled stuff (Melodyne, TH3, Vocal Sync, Drum Replacer, Rapture, Dimension Pro etc).
However, there are lots of free 3rd party plugins (some very good) that can be used in any version.
I would suggest that you get a dedicated Audio Interface, with proper ASIO drivers (Focusrite, Tascam, Presonus to mention a few). It will in my opinion give greater stability and latency.
I would also suggest getting a MIDI keyboard, as it will help workflow even if you are not a keyboard player (neither am I).
As for monitoring, there are even more choices than with AI's. I would do a search for active monitors, and fedback on them. Depending on your room size, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8". There are KRK, Presonus, Mackie, M-Audio, Yamaha, Behringer, Akai, Alesis, to name a few in the lower price bracket.  
I have a pair of Beyerdynamics DT770 that I am very pleased with, as well as a pair of AKG K240.
All the best.
2016/12/20 10:43:47
cparmerlee
If you are doing jingles or anything pop-oriented, good drums (even if low in the mix) make a real difference.  I just love Addictive Drums, which has lots of sounds, and loads of useful loops that can be customized.
2016/12/20 10:47:40
Slugbaby
Sonar Platinum is great, as there's so much stuff included.  Some you will use right away, some you won't, and some you won't know how beneficial it is until you experiment.  The Addictive Drums, and other synths, might be worthwhile for purely "in the box" recording.
There's also the option to buy Sonar Artist or Professional (or Home Studio or Music Creator) and then upgrade to Sonar Platinum for whatever the upgrade cost is.
 
I started loooong ago with a different version of Home Studio than what's available now.  As my music and workflows changed, and from seeing the features discussed in this forum, I upgraded until I got to SPlat.
 
And as others have said, you'll want an audio interface (Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 has audio/midi and good drivers, but if you only want MIDI input, you can get a cheaper MIDI-USB interface with no audio options), and headphones and/or monitors.  I use Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro headphones (and headphone calibration from Sonarworks to balance the EQ problems inherent in headphones and Waves NT Virtual Room for panning concerns).
2016/12/20 11:01:06
Sanderxpander
I will second (or third) the BeyerDynamic headphones. I have the 990 pro too, I also use the 770, they're basically the same except that the 770 is a closed design (very little sound passes into or out of the shell, useful when working with sensitive microphones or ambient noise) and the 990 is open (slightly better and more comfortable for mixing).

Also yes, get a dedicated audio interface that was built for this purpose. Not a Sound Blaster and not a Realtek chip. They're ok for occasional use when there are no other options but you'd get frustrated having to rely on it.

Also, unless you're 100 percent sure of stability, overclocking is not generally a great idea for audio systems. You'll be able to run plenty of stuff with a stock 6700K though.

Oh and honestly for your purpose I'd recommend Sonar Studio with Omnisphere, rather than Platinum.
2016/12/20 11:12:14
occide
Ok thanks guys already for your answers, exactly what I was looking for.
 
So on the monitors again: Any specific recommendation? Pricing around $200, is that realistic? Consider that this will be a hobby for me mostly.
 
I also forgot to ask, are there any bundles that may fit my purpose? Like "soundcard + Sonar Software" bundle?
2016/12/20 11:21:51
pentimentosound
A lot of the old articles on home studios from Recording Mag and Electronic Musician, used to advise spending more on your monitors than pretty much anything else, like a 1/3 of your budget. The room is a big deal, too. So treatment is an area to explore. Even if you do everything direct, you still need to hear it well/accurately, etc. So, plan to listen on good phones, better speakers, and as many other reference systems (car, music store, a friend's etc), as you can. 
    Since you don't need a great mic, I'd focus on monitors, headphones, the DAW program, and a keyboard that allows you to find sounds quickly and has pads for tapping percussion and drums, like Arturia's KeyLab stuff. You might find one with usb to make things simple.
    You don't mention budget but if $400 can be spent on monitors, the JBL LSR308 (the LSR305's are less per pair)and the Equator D5's are excellent. Then in the headphone realm, check out the Audio Technica ATH-M50x. Sony MDR7506 are like $99 and those will work well, too. I also, really liked the AKG K240 and plan to replace my old ones.
    Depending on how much time you'll get to work on stuff, you might find you'll outgrow a "starter" level... upgrading is always an option. Got any pals that do this? If not, try to meet some at your local shops and visit them to see/hear "things in action". When I was about to buy my "biggest to date" monitors (after building two rooms for my studio), I walked into a Sam Ash in Chicago where about 8-9 guys were having a monitor shoot out and I knew right away which ones I wanted!
Best of luck! I'm sure you'll have a blast figuring it all out.
Happy Holidays to all!
Michael
   
2016/12/20 11:24:31
jude77
It's been said more than once on this forum that SONAR has everything you need to make pro recordings as long as you know what you're doing.  Personally, I agree with that statement. 
 
To try and answer some of your questions:
1. Yes, you need monitors.  I'd recommend doing a google search for reviews and then hitting a local music store and see if you can audition a pair.  I'd recommend staying away from ported ones.  They have usually have node issues.  Hopefully Bitflipper (a regular here) will see this post and weigh in.  He knows that stuff in spades and could probably make recommendations by price.
2.  Unless you have a well-tuned room the amp you use probably won't make a lot of difference.  I'm sure others would disagree.  Just don't use a really crappy one.
3.  I think Ken (known as "Zarg" above) gave GREAT advice on what version of SONAR to get.
4.  As for mixing with 'phones: it's hard!!  If you just have to do it then check out this site: http://sonarworks.com/?gclid=COTG9N-Ug9ECFUk7gQod5UQOCw  They'll give you a fighting chance.  Basically they sell software that will make your headphones "flat" frequency wise. 
5. I would say you probably need a keyboard, but you could use midi-guitar software.  Here's a page that may help you with that decision:  http://www.jamorigin.com/
 
These are simply my opinions and others, who are more informed than I, can steer you better I'm sure. 
 
Lastly, stay plugged into this forum.  These guys here really know their stuff and are ALWAYS helpful and courteous, so keep posting questions as they come to you.
 
Best of luck with your music!!
2016/12/20 11:26:35
scottfa
My approach would be a little different. I would demo a number of DAWs to see which one I preferred. Short list: Sonar, Reaper, Studio One. Maybe Cubase. Definitely get good closed set of headphones, I use the 770's. If your apartment is noisy how can you use monitors? I would use the Realtek to try stuff out and make a decision later. Maybe the Realrek would be good enough for your purposes. You will need a 49/61 keyboard. Ikmultimedia sells them with SampleTank included. Might be all you need for now.
IMO, getting the right DAW and headphones are the most important for you. After that, you can expand interface, and selection of synths.
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