I'm looking at a new computer, like the 27" iMac Retina 5k with i7-4790k. Sonar is my main DAW, but I also use Logic Pro on my macbook to swap files with the other guys in my band. I realize that Sonar is not ported for OSX, so I'm looking into running Windows via bootcamp.
 
The operating systems will be loaded on separate physical drives (two SSD) just to keep my file systems easy to manage. Windows uses NTFS file system, Mac uses HFS. So I'm not sure if that will be an issue for file transfers. Or if I need a workaround (like passing files through the 'Cloud' or a separate FAT32 drive that both Mac & Windows can recognize).
 
Do you run mac/bootcamp/windows/sonar? Bonus points if you also work in the mac environment. If so, what pitfalls did you run into? Any resources or workarounds you find yourself using?
 
If anyone cares, Thunderbolt is my main reason for buying an Apple. Windows audio developers have all but ignored it. I bought a MOTU 8M (which I can use TB in Mac, and USB for Windows). They don't have a Windows driver for Thunderbolt, so I'll likely track in Logic with super low latency monitoring - and then mix in Windows/Sonar/USB. That is, unless the MOTU TB driver somehow magically works in the Windows environment.

I ran a hackintosh for a while with a similar dual boot setup. I used an SSD for Windows boot and a regular 1TB HDD split three ways - one partition for OSX, one for OSX data and one "hybrid" FAT32 drive that both OSs could access. OSX could actually also read my NTFS drives, just not write to them. I believe some driver or utility was needed for that (Paragon or something?). I also used HFS Explorer if I really needed to access an HFS drive or stick.

It was pretty stable on the whole. No serious issues. Only thing to be aware of is if you have any external plugs or instruments that authorize on disk, both OSs count as separate authorizations. May be an issue for some plugs that limit the amount of authorizations (like Addictive Drums).

Thanks for the feedback. That's good to know. I have a decent collection of plugins/instruments for each environment, but mostly I record live instruments. Most of my plugins will be Sonar-only. I'd love if I could use Logic's amp sim for guitars, but I think that's tethered as a Logic only plug.

GMGM
If anyone cares, Thunderbolt is my main reason for buying an Apple. Windows audio developers have all but ignored it. I bought a MOTU 8M (which I can use TB in Mac, and USB for Windows). They don't have a Windows driver for Thunderbolt, so I'll likely track in Logic with super low latency monitoring - and then mix in Windows/Sonar/USB. That is, unless the MOTU TB driver somehow magically works in the Windows environment.

Sadly MOTU are pretty Mactarded and so aren't likely to have good Windows support. You can have a Windows system with Thunderbolt, but MOTU loves Macs and have never had great Windows drivers. You might wish to consider an RME card. Though they operate over USB and Firewire, their latency is as low as anything you are going to see and their drivers are top notch. USB is actually not an issue latency wise, with proper drivers/interface hardware, most companies just aren't very good at it.
 
I just wouldn't recommend using MOTU stuff with Windows all that much because like I said, they aren't very good at it.

Sycraft
Sadly MOTU are pretty Mactarded and so aren't likely to have good Windows support. You can have a Windows system with Thunderbolt, but MOTU loves Macs and have never had great Windows drivers. You might wish to consider an RME card. Though they operate over USB and Firewire, their latency is as low as anything you are going to see and their drivers are top notch. USB is actually not an issue latency wise, with proper drivers/interface hardware, most companies just aren't very good at it.
 
I just wouldn't recommend using MOTU stuff with Windows all that much because like I said, they aren't very good at it.

MOTU certainly is a bit Mac centric...
That said, the MOTU Ultalite AVB works great under Windows.
Round-trip latency can be set as low as 4.9ms at 44.1k.
 
FWIW, The issue isn't MOTU under Windows.
The issue is that PCIe over Thunderbolt isn't fully baked with Windows.
ALL Thunderbolt audio interfaces (not just MOTU) currently running under Windows are running Firewire protocol via Thunderbolt.  Thus, there's no performance advantage vs. running connected via Firewire.
 
The reason you don't see the PC side rushing to support Thunderbolt:
Thunderbolt provides access to the PCIe bus (nothing more nothing less).
We've had PCIe slots for a long time.  The technology exists, it's relatively inexpensive, and it works.
Other than the ability to connect externally, Thunderbolt offers no advantage to PCIe slots.
Thunderbolt peripherals tend to be a lot more expensive than their PCIe counterparts.
 
The reason Mac is pushing Thunderbolt:
The new "cylinder" Mac Pro models have no PCIe slots.
The only way to access the PCIe bus is via Thunderbolt.
IMO, Apple jumped the gun with this transition.  
If you were running PCIe hardware, you now have to re-purchase Thunderbolt equivalents.
A much more graceful transition would have been a generation of Mac that offered both PCIe slots and Thunderbolt.
This would have given users more time to transition... and developers more time to solidify.
 
MOTU has shown that they can develop USB drivers that offer very low (rock-solid) round-trip latency.
I'm all about lowest possible round-trip latency, but 4.9ms (at 44.1k) is low enough to effectively work.
With quality PCIe card at a 32-sample ASIO buffer size, you can achieve round-trip latency in the 3-4ms range.
PCIe over Thunderbolt would offer similar performance under Windows.
The advantage of PCIe card or PCIe via Thunderbolt is the ability to effectively run at ASIO buffer sizes smaller than 64-samples.
 
Note that Core Audio under Mac allows lower round-trip latency than Windows.
This is not specific to Thunderbolt.  You'd achieve lower round-trip latency with any audio interface.
 
 

I really, really don't get the cylindrical PowerMac. Sure it's small and it looks "ok" but the kind of user that needs one is inevitably going to end up with a cluster of external devices and cables, ruining any benefit the format might have had.

Sanderxpander
I really, really don't get the cylindrical PowerMac. Sure it's small and it looks "ok" but the kind of user that needs one is inevitably going to end up with a cluster of external devices and cables, ruining any benefit the format might have had.

Completely agree...

Sanderxpander
I really, really don't get the cylindrical PowerMac. Sure it's small and it looks "ok" but the kind of user that needs one is inevitably going to end up with a cluster of external devices and cables, ruining any benefit the format might have had.

I'ts Apple: Form over function. It really isn't something well designed for a pro market. Rather it is a toy for people who are drawn in by such things. We have a professor that bought one. A $400 Dell would do just as well for what he needs, but he wants his expensive toy.

As far as audio interfaces are concerned my RME UFX runs equally well as USB in Windows and Firewire (via a Thunderbolt to firewire adaptor) on my Macbook Pro. With good drivers there really is nothing in it between the two systems other than Core Audio makes some things simpler on the Mac, an ease of use advantage instantly wiped out by having to deal with Logic's "environment".

As for Thunderbolt, where it does come into its own is the Windows laptop/Macbook situation where Thunderbolt allows high speed access to the PCIe bus that otherwise wouldn't be there. An SSD connected via Thunderbolt is for all real world purposes as good as one connected to the SATA bus.

But OS X only provides TRIM support for Apple branded SSDs. Apple don't make external drives and OS X doesn't even support TRIM on the third party drives sold through the Apple store. Fortunately there are third party work-arounds available, via either disabling OS X kernel signing (though that does run some risks, especially if you're unfamiliar with the OS X terminal) or running TRIM manually once in a while. They're a bit of a hack, but seem to work.

The biggest downside with Thunderbolt at the moment is that there's not much hardware that supports it compared to PCIe and USB, and what there is is expensive and often lacks a through port so you can't daisy chain which kind of defeats one of Thunderbolt's strengths. Another is that most of the external drives that describe themselves as Thunderbolt and USB compatible actually run at USB3 (or even 2) speeds with the Thunderbolt socket simply providing a different connection to the drive's USB controller. On the plus side there is more Thunderbolt stuff appearing, so we may be seeing what happened with the early days of USB where it went from a new thing with little support to becoming ubiquitous over a few years.

As for the Mac Pro, no I don't quite get the format either. Other than people who work in the video/film editing world seem to favour putting whatever they're working on on external drives if for no other reason than it makes it easier to store long-term or to carry around from one workplace/location to another. At least, that's what the one person I know who does professional major release cinematic film editing does. In which case I guess a single internal system drive plus Thunderbolt makes a lot of sense.

The problem with that idea is that those guys also tend to want high end dual graphics cards. Which means adding a Thunderbolt PCIe enclosure which (apart from being ridiculously expensive) adds clutter. Now you have a computer in two boxes connected by a cable, with two PSUs, instead of one bigger box. Thunderbolt isn't necessary for external drives either, eSATA has been around for a long time and connects directly to the mobo controller without even passing through a PCIe card. I have Komplete and a bunch of other libraries on my eSATAp SSD to switch between laptop and desktop.

It's weird to me because Macs, while expensive and having a lot of money put in design, have usually still been pretty powerful and competitive computers. At least the G3/G4 PowerMacs and the later dual Xeon systems were good performers. Even the new trashcan model has nice hardware inside. It just misses its goals on so many levels.

I second the RME UCX/UFX series by the way. You can get really low round-trip latency with those on a simple USB2 connection. I can't imagine the benefit of Thunderbolt speed-wise there.