Hi guys


First time posting. Recent purchaser of Music Creator 6. First time home recorder. Bit of a dunce so bare with me...


Sent this problem to to Technical Team but thought I'd post here aswell as people here seem pretty knowledgeable.


I've tried to be as descriptive as possible so here it is:


Problem


The problem is that when i import a midi file into Music Creator and try to route it out to my external synth hardware, the response is very stuttered and stop-starty with lots of clipping.


What I'm Trying To Do


Im trying to record my keyboards for my band to backing track. So im want to use Powertab to tab out midi parts that i cant play by hand, then import these midi files into Music Creator 6, route the midi out to my Roland UA25EX and then from there to my external synth hardware and receive the audio from the synth back into the UA25EX and then back into my computer as an audio track.


Whats Happening


When i import the midi into Cakewalk and try to play it back through my synth, it is very stuttered. This is especially the case when i take a small midi section and copy it over and over again. Every time it starts a new midi secton, it seems to cut off the audio from the previous section and then splutter for a second or so then start playing the new section. Importing one complete midi file from Powertab can help with this but it still stutters when it gets to the first midi notes. And there is still a lot of clipping. 


The kicker is this: if i just skip the midi import into cakewalk and use the midi out from Powertab to send midi directly to my UA25 EX (thereby skipping any midi tracks in Cakewalk) and then record just the audio in Cakewalk, the audio plays and records perfectly and is fine with no stuttering. The downside of this is i cant sequence the midi in Cakewalk so i have to move the audio around until it fits the piece. Which is time consuming.


Solution?


So i figure the problem lies somewhere in the midi settings of cakewalk. It doesn’t seem to be my audio hardware as i can record fine using powertab’s midi out settings. Ive tried adjusting most of the settings in cakewalk under the preferences/midi section but Im not very clued into what im doing.


Any thoughts on what could be causing the problem? As i said, first time trying to do recording myself so any help would be appreciated.



Thanks

What sound card are you using and what is the operating system and is it 32 or 64? 

Stuttering is often a sound card related issue but can also be a buffers settings issue.  Increase the buffers a bit and see if that solves it.  Using a factory sound card is a huge drawback in creating music in Cakewalk. Being able to play it on some other program does not mean it will run flawlessly in Cake with a factory card. Cake is a much more demanding and a much more capable program and having the right hardware is essential to a smooth experience. 

You can do what you want... in the routing listed above...... but..... why not simply use the softsynths in MC6 to play the parts rather than having all that convoluted routing? Soft synths are easy to use, are all inside the box, and have a ton of easy to use great sounding samples. 

The only thing I use my midi keyboard for is to input the midi to the midi track. Then I insert the synth I want to use and let it all happen inside the box. No complicated routing, no extra cords and connectors, and it happens reliably.  Just a thought. 

Hi thanks for the reply.

My soundcard is whatever one came with my laptop so very likely not good. However, thats why i have both a UA25EX and a Saffire Pro 24 DSP for use. I thought these would solve my problem of having a ****ty soundcard. All im doing is routing midi through cakewalk ... and it seems to struggle when it first starts up and then clip a little as it gets going. But the same midi through powertab results in perfectly clean audio coming through.

I raised the ASIO buffer to the max it would go (setting of 10, 864 samples, 19.6 msec) and raised the Preferences/Midi/Prepare Using ____ Millisecond buffers to 3000. Still the same stutter at the start then audio clip. 

Im wondering if it could possibly be the UA25EX? I havent had a chance to try my Saffire Pro as im waiting for a PCI express card firewire slot off ebay to show up as laptop firewire cards are nothing to write home about either. I might give it a bash when it arrives.

I route all my midi to my Muse Receptor 2 which basically has all my high powered VSTs under one roof (omnisphere, heavyocity evolve). I tried the soft synths briefly but they cant even compete with these and its pretty much my go to for programming sounds. And because the VSTs are so high powered, I cant run them on my laptop so hence the need to route everything via the receptor with cables and such.

So yeah if anyone has any other thoughts or ideas, let me know...


Edit: Win 7 32 bit is my operating system.

...following on from the above, another question i have about cakewalk is; 

Is there any way to merge two midi parts together?

Like say i want to just tab out one midi part and then copy it over and over so it plays a couple of times, then merge them as if they were all one part. Ive noticed when doing one midi part and then copying it again, cakewalk will play the first midi part (stuttering at the start as described above), stop the audio (literally cut it off once it reaches the end), then start the new midi (stuttering again) and so on and so forth.

Here's a audio export example of the problems im having, if anyone wants to have a listen:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9.../Test%20Midi.wav 

Hmmmmm....

Welcome to the forum.
Have you tried writing MIDI in the MC 6 Staff view or Piano Roll view (PRV) and playing it back to see it if does the same thing?
You wrote "ASIO", but do you mean ASIO4All? You should be able to get better than 19.6 msec with the UA and ASIO.
Have you turned off all other programs, including virus scanners before recording? Get off the internet first, of course, and turn off the modem.
 
Look up 'Groove Looping' in the Help files. You can record/write just a single note, measure, section, convert it to a Groove Loop and drag it out as far as you want.

Yes... using one of the external interfaces like you said..... You should be using the ASIO driver for that interface. You want to check to be sure you don't have the MME or WMD driver activated for those interfaces.  That might also cause problems.   

The UA25X should work just fine with the correct ASIO driver. 

Use the right driver that the card is designed to work with.  Be sure to remove ASIO4ALL from the computer as I have heard that leaving it in a computer may cause issues when you try to use the real ASIO drivers. 

The drop box link didn't work. 


With a modern computer...lappy or other, you should not have to set the buffers to the max..... not even close, to get good performance. My buffers are set pretty low (256?) and I have no problem. I have an older (3yrs old now) DAW and running on XP pro....32 bit. 

Double check the drivers and go to the web to get the latest updated driver from the manufacturers web site. 

Yeah I am using the ASIO drivers (not ASIO4ALL which I dont have installed). I did have them set at a reasonable level initially (around about the default) but adjusted them to their max to see if it would make a difference ... which it didnt.
 
I might try what 57Gregy said; manually inputting the notes into Music Creator 6. In fact, I think i recall seeing a powertab like input method, which i much prefer to trying to draw **** on lines or staff’s. Might have to find that and give it a go as maybe the midi import is sending things askew.
 
Here’s the dropbox link again
 
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9512830/Test%20Midi.wav


And maybe ill try linking it like this in case the above doesnt work


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9512830/Test%20Midi.wav



Thanks guys

OK... that link worked. 

i want to just tab out one midi part and then copy it over and over so it plays a couple of times, then merge them as if they were all one part. Ive noticed when doing one midi part and then copying it again, cakewalk will play the first midi part (stuttering at the start as described above), stop the audio (literally cut it off once it reaches the end), then start the new midi (stuttering again) and so on and so forth. 


is that what you did in that clip?  I noticed the missing audio. 


usually when midi is rendered to audio even with a cheap sound card, the computer is able to render it pretty cleanly since in the rendering process, keeping up to real time is not important. 


But... in this case, the problem is still evident. 


Here's my guess: If you copied and pasted these loops you have an overlap issue.  In that, the last note of the loop is longer than the end of the measure. The new note in the next loop starts before the old one ends.  In midi, notes have on signals and off signals.  What the sequencer is seeing is this>
note 1 on............ note 2 on..note 1 off............. note 2 off   
since the last note is on, and the next signal is also an on signal.... followed immediately by the forst note off..... you end up with that gap in the music.


The solution to this would be to go to staff mode and right click on the last note of the original loop. Right clicking it opens the NOTE PROPERTY window where you can see the note DURATION value. See if it is exceeding the end of the measure. This would be more common in a note that was entered by a keyboard as opposed to a stock loop. I do this all the time....I  hold the key down past the end of the measure and if I edit manually, the following note disappears. 


Simply lessen the duration so that it ends before the measure ends and then copy and paste a few loops to test it.  Set the snap to grid to MEASURES to allow precise on the measure dragging and pasting.

Hey guys 

So i think i figured it out. When i was importing the midi i didnt have a rest at the start of the powertab. So i guess it was skipping because it didnt have time to start the new midi file (im guessing something along those lines).

Anyways, I started putting a whole note rest before each midi file i import and then drag the whole note rest under the midi part before it. Now it doesnt skip or clip a little when it starts. It just flows straight into the next midi part.

Thanks for all your help guys. Im sure ill be back here soon enough with another problem but thank you guys so much for taking the time to help :D