2014/11/16 14:24:06
wayfinder
Standard? I mean okay, it's one thing to say "we're doing this a little differently than most everyone else" and be clear about it, but it's another to claim that I shouldn't expect the measures to be in notes in the first place, and it's actually MORE common to do it in beats, and z3ta got there first anyway – as if the age of the first predecessor of the software were the basis for my expectations ;)
 
I just spent an hour trying to find another piece of software or an online calculator that defines "1/4" other than as "a quarter note" (ie 500 ms at 120 BPM), but no success. Not even the sonitus delay included with Cakewalk's own Sonar does it like z3ta, according to the online documentation I could find. 
 
I mean, what does the D and T stand for if not "dotted" and "triplets"? Surely you'll not claim that there's such a thing as a dotted quarter beat? Those two modifiers pretty heavily imply the use of "notes" as the base unit here.
 
It's also a false dilemma to present the issue as if the only other option were to measure things by ear. Sure, there are lots of ways to skin a cat, but some are better than others, and it's perfectly valid to talk about that. For sync, for knobs, for sliders, and for multiple choice menus too!
 
 
 
 
 
 
2014/11/16 16:57:27
swamptooth
I can't reproduce the arpeggiator issue describe in live 9.  do you have a certain patch you can reference?
also, d and t do stand for dotted and triplet - and, yes, there is such a thing as a dotted quarter note.
i've also seen synths on the market that use 1/12 instead of 1/8t like massive.
2014/11/16 17:23:44
wayfinder
Italo 84 (the standard first patch) is a good example. When I open z3ta+2 in Live 8 and start playing one note and hold it, it will play a sustained single note. When I keep holding it and play another note, the first note will end, the second note will not play, and no further sounds will be made as long as the first key is held. When I hit play in Live, things change: z2ta will play the arpeggio pattern when I hold a note. When playback is stopped, and I disable the arpeggiator, behavior changes as well: The patch now becomes polyphonic (so when playing a sustained note and hitting another key, that second note will play in addition to the first one).
 
And yes, there is such a thing as a dotted quarter NOTE, which is why one would assume that something that says 1/4D refers to a fraction of a NOTE, and there's no such thing as a dotted quarter BEAT, so it would be strange to assume that 1/4D would refer to a fraction of a BEAT – just as I wrote earlier. 
 
And yes, Massive uses 12th and 24th, and still 1/12 there is 1/12 note, and not 1/12 beat or 1/12 bar or 1/12 measure :)
2014/11/16 17:40:05
swamptooth
Ah, I get the semantics of what you were trying to say now.  Agree.  
Still can't replicate the arpeggiator issue...  
2014/11/16 20:54:23
AT
I find the method of tempo divisions useful - so do others synth and effect makers like Nomad Audio.  It is less math than cross-referencing ms v bpm - and sorry you didn't get the humor about analog.  It was actually quite fun and never quite as steady with tape loops.  FYI, Sonitus was bought by Cake as a third party add-on and had their own methodology going on before they went belly up as a separate entitiy. 
 
Z3TA's sync options work pretty well despite the sematic problem.  And I'd give your arp problem a whirl - I got Live!, but wonder if you wouldn't just put words in my mouth as I tried to stumble toward an answer with you. 
 
@
 
 
2014/11/17 03:42:37
wayfinder
I find the tempo division useful, now that I know how they're meant to work; it is indeed less math than cross-referencing ms – you'll note that I referenced the ms value only to show what 1/4 means almost everywhere else, not to say that I preferred entering delay times in milliseconds. My quarrel was, as you'll see when you look at my answer to swamptooth's first post in this thread, not with the thing itself (All I did was thank him for clearing things up!). I did resent your claim that the non-standard way of doing things was actually the standard and the implication that it therefore was not a valid criticism to have. 
 
Interesting that you bring up Nomadfactory:

Their manuals aren't online, but this screenshot makes it look extremely likely that this delay's sync works in units of notes (there are friggin' note graphics on there!). If it didn't, I would make the same claim of unintuitivity that I've made of z3ta's sync values, perhaps even stronger. I would not consider it to be contributing toward a different standard than "1/1 = 1 full note".
 
And that snide little comment at the end there, was that really necessary? 
2014/12/01 16:00:58
PopStarWannabe
wayfinder
- 2x oversampling and highest precision mode sounds awesome

 
They are hard to reach - one has to go to the Options Menu, go down, hit Real Time, select, go back, etc... They should be much more easily accessible so as to be able to compare the result. Sometimes though 1.0x Real Time Quality sounds better than 2.0x (oversampling).
 
What I really don't understand is why do we have options with respect to Off Line quality. That seems senseless to me.
 
There's also one  NOT EXCUSABLE bug described here: http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Contact/Problem-Report-Status?id=26670&email=alexbelciu%40gmail.com
However this seems to affect Windows users only.
 
Oh, and what has always been a constant annoyance to me: the Modulation Matrix is split into 2 pages, so that you can never have a complete picture of all the assignments (like in Rapture for instance) without grabbing the mouse (because again, the developers were lazy enough not to include the buttons 1-8 and 9-16 in the MIDI Learn functionality)
 
I would say verdict 6 out of 10.
 
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