Hi,
 
I have a weird question to ask. I'm currently using the latest version of SONAR (steam edition) and one of the challenges I'm facing is I cannot seem to play in sync with the beats. Everytime after I record, I would quantize, and 20% of the notes will be either a beat too fast or a beat too slow (I usually quantize to 1/8 beat)
 
The funny thing is, when I play on my digital piano and I try to quantize, it always happens with virtually no off beats.
 
As I had a rather challenging time today trying to get all the notes in sync, I downloaded the trial version of Cubase, and one thing that struck me was that I also hardly experienced any notes that were off after quantization to 1/8 beat.
 
What I did after which was to test out the two software, each time by recording 8 bars of 64 notes (each note is 1/8 beat length). I alternated between Sonar and Cubase three times, and the results are as follows: Three times I reproducibly made between 5-10 notes that were off (out of 64 notes) by 1/8 beat after quantization for Sonar. On the other hand for Cubase I made 2 or less notes that were off each time after quantization. I used the same VST and keyboard for both.
 
I suspected it could be the timbre of the metronome notes that made me have a lower tendency to go off beat. I subsequently tried to change the metronome note sounds for Sonar to make it sound more similar to Cubase and the thing is I am not sure if it is because of practice, or is it because of the metronome sound, or is it by pure luck, that I might have appeared to make less off notes after recording. But the frequency of errors is still more than Cubase (roughly 3 or 4 notes were still off, out of 64).
 
I would like to ask if there is any software / hardware reason that could have resulted in such a difference in performance when I use Cubase vs Sonar? I'm hoping the culprit lies with metronome sound (which can be changed easily) but I'm just concerned if there is another factor that I have overlooked. This is rather important for me because it takes a lot of time and effort to correct all the notes - and even more frustrating when I know that I can have a better performance when I play using the digital keyboard or Cubase.
 
Please advise, thanks!
 
 

When you say is works with your digital piano, are you direct-monitoring the output of the piano and using Local Control, or echoing both audio and MIDI through SONAR?
 
Do you sense any latency between hitting keys and hearing sound in either case (i.e. playing digital piano or a soft synth)?
 
What audio interface and driver mode are you using, and what's the Total Roundtrip latency reported in audio preferences?
 
Do notes tend to get quantized consistently too early or too late or randomly early and late?

1) Apologies for not being clear - for the case of my digital piano I did not route it to SONAR. It has an in-built quantize function and I used that to verify
 
2) At present, no. There used to be, but I changed the buffer size under "Mixing latency" to 44KHz (30 ms)
 
3) I'm using on-board Realtek audio driver (unfortunately), MME 32-bit driver mode, triangular dithering, stream >16 bit data as 32 bit PCM, left-justified. I'm not able to find Roundtrip latency, but as mentioned above, the latency I get from the Preference is 44 KHz. Sampling rate: 44100. Buffers in playback queue: 4.
 
4) Notes tend to get quantized consistently too early. 
 
Thanks again.

It's still not clear what you're listening to when recording - some soft synth?
 
If you're using MME driver mode, it's hard to know what the total roundtrip latency is, but if the buffer is 30ms, your RTL will be at least twice that, and the latency should be bothersome.
 
That latency can also cause you to compensate subconscously by playing ahead of the click. cuasing MIDI to be laid down early.
 
If you're running Platinum on Win10, I'd suggest you start by installing the new 16.11 release and try the WASAPI driver mode.
 
Otherwise you'll probalby need to get a dedicated audio interface to resolve this fully. I'm not sure why Cubase would be working any better than SONAR, unless possibly it's already using WASAPI...?

Thanks for the reply.

To clarify, I used a vst (ewql piano). Actually I only use vst, hence only need to dabble in midi, so the music stores I visited said there might not be a need to purchase an audio interface. Unless I'm working with really a huge number of channels.

Is there any way to further reduce the buffer? This is already the lowest option that I can set, apparently.

I'm also unfortunately using windows 8.1, would there be an alternative to the wasapi driver mode that I can use in this case?

I'm curious also why I had better performance using Cubase considering I'm trying using the same gear otherwise. I suspected that it could be metronome sounds - but as I generally perform worse using my midi controller than on my actual digital piano in terms of keeping in beat, hence the query here.

Thanks for the reply.

To clarify, I used a vst (ewql piano). Actually I only use vst, hence only need to dabble in midi, so the music stores I visited said there might not be a need to purchase an audio interface. Unless I'm working with really a huge number of channels.

Is there any way to further reduce the buffer? This is already the lowest option that I can set, apparently.

I'm also unfortunately using windows 8.1, would there be an alternative to the wasapi driver mode that I can use in this case?

I'm curious also why I had better performance using Cubase considering I'm trying using the same gear otherwise. I suspected that it could be metronome sounds - but as I generally perform worse using my midi controller than on my actual digital piano in terms of keeping in beat, hence the query here.

If you have 30 ms of latency, it is likely that your notes are at least 1 1/8th note (and maybe more) off which would make it appear that they are getting quantized too early.  Did you use the same tempo in Cubase and Sonar?

Thanks for the reply. Yes I used 205 bpm as the same tempo for cubase and sonar. I know one alternative to resolve this is to reduce the bpm to a lower value - I have reasonably good results at 120 bpm. Nonetheless would like to find out if there are more sustainable alternatives that can resolve the latency

Thanks for the reply. Yes I used 205 bpm as the same tempo for cubase and sonar. I know one alternative to resolve this is to reduce the bpm to a lower value - I have reasonably good results at 120 bpm. Nonetheless would like to find out if there are more sustainable alternatives that can resolve the latency

At 205, i would definitely expect notes to be more than one off from where you want/expect them to be.