• Software
  • Sonar alternatives more in-depth (p.2)
2017/12/28 10:33:54
anydmusic
chris.r
Hi guys... to people who already jumped on different DAW, here's feature set of Sonar that makes my workflow. My question is, if you care enough to dig into details, what other DAWs support those features? Please answer only if you're sure you know your new DAW and their feature equivalents good enough. Also you can specify any alternatives if it makes sense, because I understand that it's not possible to carry exactly same feature set 1 by 1 from one DAW to another :) So, here we go:
 
...
 
So thanks for your support and any reply highly appreciated. Cheers!


Reads like a feature set for Sonar, if that's what you need then maybe you need to stick with Sonar :-) 
 
Anyone who has compared software will know that when you list features most products look unique so comparing tasks is the way to go.
 
ARA support is a good example, the task is "fixing vocals" so you don't need ARA although if you prefer Melodyne it does help with the workflow.
 
If your looking for an alternative which has the same functions as Sonar with the same names for easy comparison I don't think that you'll find what you are looking for. If you want something that will allow you to continue recording and perform the tasks that matter to you then there is a good chance that one of the products being discussed will be a reasonable fit. 
2017/12/28 10:57:27
whitealbum
Chris.r!
So, i made a big list with all answers to all your questions for Sonar/Cubase 9.5 Pro.
But, it is not possible to save this here (don't know why!)
 
If you are interested, please send me PM with your email adress.
2017/12/28 11:24:09
anydmusic
whitealbum
Chris.r!
So, i made a big list with all answers to all your questions for Sonar/Cubase 9.5 Pro.
But, it is not possible to save this here (don't know why!)
 
If you are interested, please send me PM with your email adress.


That's a shame as I'm sure many would find it useful.
2017/12/28 11:28:45
tenfoot
Jeff Evans
Can be done in Studio One as well. CC data appears in the automation lanes. Each CC data will have its own lane. What you do is select the transform tool and then you do operations on that CC data. Like compressing down to values or ranges. Moving it all up or down etc. Making it all one value etc.. Its more of a visual thing in Studio One. 
 
People's perception of Studio One's lesser midi capabilities is often misguided. 



Whilst it is true that this is possible, it is extraordinarily convoluted compared to Sonar or Cubase (which has an excellent logical editor for midi). Although I have found a way to do most basic midi changes I need in S1, the 'visual adjustment' of all midi cc's is terribly fiddly. I am a fan of Studio One, however the idea that the midi is not as advanced as Sonar is far from misguided. It really is pretty basic. I am hoping this is an area Presonus choose to improve soon as it certainly is the achilles heel of Studio One.
 
If midi is your main thing and you do lots of complex single edits, Studio one, despite its many strengths, is probably not the best choice for you. On the other hand, if you dont do much other than straightforward midi recording and basic editing, it does the job just fine.
2017/12/28 12:12:07
Jeff Evans
tenfoot
 
if you don't do much other than straightforward midi recording and basic editing, it does the job just fine.

How long have you been working with Studio One and how much midi editing have you actually done.  The above statement sounds like it may not be that long or you don't really know the full extent its midi capabilities yet.  The midi editing is not super advanced but it is far from basic as well.  Also working with something like the Transform Tool is not convoluted either.  Entering a whole lot of numbers and not actually seeing what it may look like is convoluted. Different point of view. 
 
I do a lot of work in both audio and midi and have got along rather fine in both areas. Not found any major areas lacking. Agreed it needs some more midi stuff for sure.  It's only 6 years old remember.  It's an actually pretty decent overall DAW for such a young age. 
 
The next major update (V4) might change a few minds.
 
There are few things that people don't know as well. With external hardware in Studio One midi timing is totally independent of the audio side of the program and how hard the audio side is working. Sonar was poor in this regard. Midi timing gets worse as the audio is working harder in Sonar. It always felt to me that the midi timing clock was related to the audio clock.  In this regard S1 is way ahead.  If you are really great player and can play really nicely in time to the click (or not, still without quantising that is e.g. very subtle timing) that playing is very well captured and played back. It's actually exceptional in this regard. There are a few big names that use it for this reason alone. Not everything is quantised. 
 
Also you can still jump tracks (e.g. different hardware synths on each track that is) while looping and recording without a hitch e.g. total gapless performance. New material just gets added in on the track you land on. Sonar cannot do this. This works with virtual instruments too if you have got the power to run several of them at once at super low latencies.  (16 sample buffer settings now available)
 
These are actually major midi considerations compared to perhaps minor editing features that may be lacking or often not needed. For me this is the real stuff that is super important. 
 
With a thunderbolt interface (on Mac) running latencies to well under 2mS, the same level of performance timing is also apparent in virtual instruments too. The actual timing resolution of midi data is super high in Studio One. Once again, important stuff. 
 
 
 
2017/12/28 12:29:09
djwayne
You don't need all that junk...here's what I did within 4 days of getting Studio One, I got the faderport yesterday.....
 
https://soundcloud.com/djwayne2000/everybody-loves-somebody-sometime
 
just get busy making music....
2017/12/28 12:50:20
azslow3
I am not an expert, but there is a list and so I will go throw it. For REAPER.
I put my comments directly into quotas, for readability.
 
I start from the features which have better implementation in REAPER, compare to Sonar:

track folders
combined midi/audio tracks (make instrument track)
patch points, aux tracks

In Reaper, a track is everything: audio, midi, video, aux, bus, folder, VCA. By default, folder is also a bus, but that can be decoupled. Folders support sub-folders (any depth). Tracks can be but into multiple groups, as master/slave/VCA for arbitrary set of parameters.
MIDI/Audio routing is homogeneous (unlike in Sonar, MIDI also can be routed as "Send"). Routing Matrix gives one picture overview of the whole routing, with "swipe" gestures.
There is "IN-FX" bin, so plug-ins (MIDI and Audio) can be applied before recording (especially useful for MIDI manipulations).
Sub-project is an item which can be used as usual media file (automatically kept in sync).
 

MIDI effects (mfx)
CAL

EEL2/Lua/Python/C++. For MIDI, audio and the DAW behavior. Build-in editor for scripts.
Scripts can work as "one time processor" (CAL direction) or as FX processors (MFX direction).
Big set of (M)FX scripts is bundled. Huge set is in SWS extension (almost standard to have in Reaper). And most users publish there own...
 
 
That is the list of features with similar implementation

unlimited I/O, audio/MIDI tracks, busses and VSTs
opening 32bit VST in 64bit
resonably good VST handling
ability to switch off automatic VST scan during starup - It seems like there is some VST scanning at startup, but it is quick. I mean when Sonar does something longer when its auto-scanning is on.
plugin load balancing - Not tweaked CPU handling in Reaper is efficient. May be under condition when Sonar plug-in load balancing as such make sense (note that is  very specific case, as mentioned in Sonar docs) Reaper can saturate some core, but I have no such conditions. So for me (and some other users) ASIO buffer size can be kept low longer then in Sonar.
dynamic control bar - multiple arbitrary configurable tool bars
track templates, screensets
convenient interleave (mono/stereo), phase switch and input echo on/off switch on every track - Reaper has a bit different approach for echo on/off, for some use cases it is better for other worse.
quick group and smart swipe - multiple independent persistent groups and quick group for tracks and items
expandable fx & sends (in Inspector/Console view) - no build-in inspector... but Console view can show as many fxes and sends as the screen allows.
dim/exclusive solo - called "Solo in front"
copy entire clips as linked clips (siblings) - called "MIDI pooling"
MIDI events chase on play
video handling - I have not tried, but it is there
non-destructive audio & MIDI editing
Ripple editing
take lanes & speed comping
clips auto-crossfade
bounce to clip(s) - called "Glue"
audiosnap - transient-based audio editing. A bit different, but there.
clip FX rack (clip based fx)
clip/track: apply effects (process in-place)
freeze/unfreeze track
groove-clip looping functionality
rxp file handling - convert or slice, no build-in direct handling (in Sonar there is only convert).
export selection to audio - select clips/tracks and time region and export (bounce) to audio file
MIDI view/editing directly in Clip pane
step recording (MIDI)
quantize + swing ability

Length/velocity scale
event list, markers and tempo editing

 
Not yet, but almost there

Melodyne - ARA support. Reaper is waiting for ARA2 which is coming soon (short video of it in Reaper already exists)

 
Different (better or worse is subjective)

Skylight interface - Many newcomers do not like Reper interface. But there are many themes and they can include much more tweaks then in Sonar themes, I mean not only images and colors can be changed but also the structure.
smart tool - Reaper has configurable mouse behavior, but not all Sonar smart tool gestures can be done 
mix recall - there is SWS Snapshot extension. I have not sufficiently used mix recall / this extension to compare.
Snap To/Snap By switch - I have not found snap by. But setting snap offset is a bit easier then in Sonar, so I compensate with it (and I have found that less error prone).

radius algo for pitch/strech audio - as many other DAWs, Reaper use elastique. You can find many comparisons, some say izotope is better.
step sequencer - no buil-in. There are some bundled plug-ins (MIDI sequencer), seems like can do some sequencing.

find/change (interpolate), select by filter - find change can be done by plug-ins(scripts), so not destructive. "Select" is a part of Filter in the MIDI editor.
FX Chains - FX chains can be saved, but they are "flattened" when inserted into the bin.

 
I do not know / not found yet

X-Ray feature
groove quantize
save as MIDI format 0 and 1 - Reaper can definitively save MIDI files, but I have not tested how
SysEx

 
Not there

matrix view - there is PlayTime. Not free, looks a big ugly and behave quite ugly, but support usual for matrixes controllers.


 
Not and will not be there (and not in any other DAW)

drumreplacer
vocalsync
ProChannel
QuadCurve EQ - (Reaper has bundled EQ with spectrum analyzer)
Tape Emulator
Tupe Saturation

Blue Tubes suite (CW version works in Sonar only)

Adaptive limiter (locked to Sonar)

Truepianos  (CW version works in Sonar only)

 
The following works in any DAW. Till DX in DAWs without native support, but there is DX->VST plug-in.
Reaper support DX plug-ins natively.

sfz file handling - that is for synth, not DAWs. Corresponding CW synthes are not locked.
Sonitus suite - Compressor and Gate without side chaining
L-Phase plugins
AD2/Session Drummer 3
Cakewalk TTS-1 - DX
Lounge Lizard - AAS offer unlock codes
z3ta+/Dimension Pro/Rapture
Tone2 Bifilter 
Breverb Sonar, Rematrix Solo and TH3 Sonar - Overloud offer unlock codes


 
 
2017/12/28 13:12:53
whitealbum
Just tried it again, its not possible to save my anwers regarding Cubase 9.5 Pro for chris :(
2017/12/28 13:36:02
fitzj
You don't need all these features to make music. You end up spending more time learning how to use than making music.
2017/12/28 14:00:54
cool
vocalsync in Reaper - Lua: Align takes script
step sequencer in Reaper - js plugin Megababy
 
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