• SONAR
  • How to achieve that crystal clear guitar and snare, your ideas please?
2016/11/28 04:47:56
bobernaut
Hello everyone and thanks for taking your time to read this, I am grateful!
Admin may think that this belongs in techniques but I think not because this question involves (probably?) plug-ins and EQ I am guessing. If i am wrong then I apologize.
 
Now, the question. I have been trying for years to achieve that crystal clear rock guitar sound for recording and also the beautiful hard snare drum that you hear in many meal/rock songs. I am not talking about merely a matter of volume but of clarity and volume.
I have tried many different EQ schemes to get this sound and sometimes get close-until I compare mine to the Pros and hear that they are still so much more loud and clear than my guitars. I am possibly obsessed with this and maybe my guitars and snare are okay, you can hear mine well enough but I can't get past the sound that they are getting!
 
I once thought that this sound that I am looking for was accomplished through mastering-and that is the case somewhat I think, but, I still think that the source of the clarity and booming volume comes from the original recording and mix. Perhaps you disagree. If so, I would love to hear your insight on this.
 
Maybe my "dream" record is just clipped all over the place but if it is I can't hear it. No, in fact its the opposite, how are they getting the guitars so clear and loud while still being "distorted"?
 
My dream record that I use as the ideal mix and master is "Astrocreep 2000" by White Zombie. To me, this record sounds far superior in its genre than others (not that I have heard everything that's out there!).
 
I don't know if I am allowed to try and place a White Zombie audio clip here or not so I didn't try but if you have ever heard "More Human Than Human" then you have heard a sample of the sound that I am talking about.
 
Anyway, while you are thinking about this, I will tell you what I have tried so far:
 
A variety of distortion levels-from almost none to moderate.
 
Using Sonar's Multiband-this did make them louder but introduced some gnarly irritation which was nearly unbearable
 
Playing around with all the frequencies in  Sonar EQ-including the "Q", cutting, adding etc
 
Using CLA Compressors. CLA Guitars and  Sonar's stereo imaging
 
Doubling (2 doubles per side, each EQed and panned differently) a total of 4 guitars altogther
 
No reverb and very little delay--going for the clearest sound that I can get. I use a little delay in either quarter, eighth or none.
 
I use 59% distortion on the recordings with another 12% from a stomp box (Rat)
 
There may be something that I am forgetting but as you can see, I am trying many different things. This above stuff is what I have currently settled on and its not bad but I still don't have the sound that I want for my final recordings.
 
Please, feel free to tell me what you do for guitars, even if you do not do heavy or rock. Also, if you think that I am obsessing, please tell me so. I work in a vacuum I suppose, as an independent artist, so All I really have is you guys and stuff that I read on forums and mags.
 
About the snare drum? The same thing. How our they getting such a loud and clear snare hit? I have about the same thing as the guitars and have an okay sound but still not super clean. Do any drummers or producers have any insight into how to get a clean, above the mix (but not clipped) snare sound? Again, you could hear this snare if you listened to a tack or 2 on WZ Astrocreep 2000.
 
Maybe I am obsessing over this too, but I want 2 things for sure: Loud and clear (but still distorted) guitars and a beautiful snare that shines through all the time.
 
Again, if you have any ideas or tricks that you can share please share so I can finally stop obsessing over this and move along.
 
 
I thank you all for reading and hope to get something new to work with from you guys!
 
Thanks,
 
bob
 
2016/11/28 07:14:26
stevesweat
For the snare drum I usually put one mic for the top head and also a second mic for the bottom head which captures the snares quite well. Then I blend the two together. 
2016/11/28 07:37:09
gswitz
When you do what Steve says with the double micing the snare, invert the polarity of one of the Mics... usually the under drum one.
2016/11/28 08:28:56
dwardzala
For EQ on the snare there are 3 things I usually do:
First find the low-mid frequency of the snare and boost it a little.
Next find the frequency of the crack and boost it a little as well.
Next, and this is probably most important for the clarity, is to find the one or two frequencies that seem to ring and notch them out.
 
I then use the 1176 Pro Channel compressor to bring the snare out more in the mix.
2016/11/28 08:29:10
Kalle Rantaaho
Doesn't it start from the tools?
Do you have the same type of guitar+mics+string gauge and amp as used in your reference material?
Or do you get the sound you want when you play through your amp, but can't capture/edit/make it sit in the project correctly?
I don't actually know anything about guitars, so...
2016/11/28 08:52:42
Brian Walton
Probably need an audio clip of your guitar recording to understand where you are.

On tape you want far less distortion than most people think they do.

You will get more presence with a tube amp. And rats while they sound great in the room tend to oversaturate and destroy clarity in a recording.
2016/11/28 09:54:20
AT
The thing about pro recordings are most are done in tuned or good rooms through a good chain.  Capture the sound how you want it and mixing becomes much easier.  And it doesn't have to be overly expensive tools.  In a small but well-dampened room I get a great guitar sound from a sub $100 mxl ribbon.  I do have a great guitar player with nice stuff and I usually drive the mic through a RND Portico channel, but I have used lesser transformer-based pres and get much the same sound.  I do find that transformer-based equipment can help take the edge off of any sharp room or amp and the digital medium in general (as does a ribbon mic).  but I started listening to music in the 60s when everything was transformer and tube and tape, so that sound says "recording" to me much more that bright ic's and convertion.
 
Typically for recording, the most important things in order are:  player, instrument, room, mic, pre, effects and converter.  Make sure you are playing like you want it to sound and work from there. People can spend as much time learning to record as guitarists (etc.) spend learning to play if they want to do that job well.  Keep recording and you'll find that it gets better and easier and then, voilà, your mixing gets better.  You may not have the chops or the room to get the exact sound of a commercial recording, but you can get close.  Even with a cheap mic and today's bottom-shelf interface.
2016/11/28 11:58:58
timidi
pretty sure the snare is ducking some of if not all the track (except vocals)
2016/11/28 14:13:46
jude77
"Typically for recording, the most important things in order are:  player, instrument, room, mic, pre, effects and converter. "
 
Not much to add to that.
2016/11/28 14:32:38
Marshall
Bob - for the guitar, are you using real amps and pedals or VSTs?
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