• SONAR
  • How to achieve that crystal clear guitar and snare, your ideas please? (p.2)
2016/11/28 16:44:21
Jeff Evans
I can give you some ideas about the snare itself.  And interesting no one has actually mentioned it here so far. If you want a killer snappy crystal clear snare sound you really have to get the drum sounding that way before you do anything else.
 
I think many drummers could improve their snare tuning and maybe some of the tips presented here might help
 
1   Underneath snare head.  Correct tension.  This has to be tight people and I mean tight.
 
2   Snare wires themselves.  These are not created equal.  Good quality ones here please.  Position of the snare wires in relation to the hoops when engaged.  Snare wires need to be dead centre of the drum eg equal distance from both hoops.  I know on my Sonor snare drum if this is not so the sound sort of goes out the window.
 
3   Actual tension of the snare wires when engaged.  Tighter gives more snap but can get too thin if over tightened.  Loose gives a fatter sound but rattles a little more and not quite as much snap.
 
4   Sticks with nylon tips make a different sound to wood tips. (more top end)
 
5   Top head tension.  Must be even all round and this tension determines the overall pitch of the snare.  Up higher means slightly shorter but snappier sound too.  Lower gives a fatter sound.
 
6   Top head tension in relation to snare wire tension.  Both of these things need to be set with each other in mind.
 
7   Use of drum hoops. These are these hoops that you can put on the snare around the edge to control the ring. Some like them some dont.  If you want lots of natural ring then leave them off.  I find they are Ok and can work well.  Most commercial hoops are a little two wide for my liking.  I have cut one of my hoops in half so it is only around 10 mm wide compared to say 20 mm. This lets a little ring through for colour but still dampens the not so nice ring sound at the same time.
 
When you do all of this first then you can almost put any mic near it and you will get a killer snare sound.
2016/11/28 20:10:43
Brian Walton
Room has little "significant" impact on getting a great sound from a close mic'd cab. 
 
Not saying it has no impact, but you can get a good amp tone in a way less than ideal room when you are close micing something so loud. 
 
Drums are very different because of the amount of room they will pickup. 
 
For the whole clarity and punch thing, you are going to be close micing the guitar amp anyway. 
2016/11/30 04:15:03
SuperG
Can't help you with your instrument's "tone", but I'll point out that one way to make something louder is to make everything else a bit quieter. You can also try a limiter, and bring it up a bit.
2016/11/30 05:02:03
bobernaut
Thank for all the great suggestion guys! I knew I would get some worthwhile input from you all because you are the only one's who understand.
 
I should have made this clear from the start but I am now pretty much completely in the digital world although I have spent much time in the analogue world too. Nevertheless, I do feel that everything that was suggested is quite important so please do not feel mislead, it was not my intention!
 
I read everything which was posted about this from you all and in general, I have accomplished everything that was said with a couple of exceptions which I have already remedied: Mic placement ( I was much further away than was recommended--which makes good sense to me for what I am trying to achieve here and amount of distortion. I have already backed down 10% more and that's about all I can live with as far as what I hear in playback. I know it will likely still sound pretty good when mixed and mastered but I just have to maintain a certain level of distortion or I will be confused with country music!
 
I thought someone might mention compression as a pre-effect but I don't think I read that. I am now experimenting with threshold levels (sustain vs dynamics). If anyone is still reading this, what is your opinion on this? Do you believe it is significant or not? I know, it depends on the meter and song, right?
 
By the way, I have all these things in proper order that many spoke of (player, room,etc).
 
Believe it or not, I can play anything that Paul Gilbert can play and plenty that he may not be able to play. The room is secure. Instrument--professional (American Stratocaster), good mics (not the high dollar one's though), tons of plug-ins and Sonar.
 
I still believe there is some secret trick that was used on this record though. I don't hear the same clarity on other more recent and similar records from other bands. I was hoping that someone would share what this secret is (if they knew what it was).
 
I am thinking that maybe they (engineers) are boosting or perhaps cutting certain frequencies in an unusual way that others don't do. Its the darnedest thing, as I sit there listening to these tunes over and over, I focus specifically on the snare and guitar and manipulate everything I can think of but still can't achieve the clarity. 
 
 
I shall re-think everything that you all said and am most grateful for everything that was said. Step by step, I will get there Thanks!
 
One last note: Thanks all drummers for your help! I am not a drummer but a programmer of drums (using good samples). I appreciate all of your insight into the snare and will use that info for sure as I go back and try to apply what you have said. Thanks guys!
 
bob
2016/11/30 06:09:58
trtzbass
So far the best big guitar tone I've achieved is with this chain:
1) http://nickcrowlab.blogspot.co.uk/2009/05/nick-crow-7170-lead-tube-guitar-amp-vst.html
2) NadIr which you can download here http://www.igniteamps.com/en/audio-plug-ins
Best cab impulses I could find for the chain: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=197925
 
Having said all this: The guitar tones you are looking fore have been engineered by very experienced professionals who know how to work very expensive gear in top class environments.
You can definitely approximate the tone but you can't have it 100%
 
Good luck!
2016/11/30 06:15:54
chuckebaby
Bob, The crack of the snare is most important and so is reverb.
Not too much reverb, but enough to give it some life.
 
The guitars are much more complicated than the snare IMO.
This is a dangerous obsession. I went through many different set ups to achieve what I finally wanted.
There are 2 routes you can go.
 
1- Guitar Sims: Though these can be very effective and convenient, they simply cant replicate the real crunch to a tee. Trust me I've tried many combinations. Clean guitar is a whole different animal but crunch, balls to the wall, tight sounding heavy guitars need to be handled differently because of their distorted over tones.
This means using filters, Q notches and compression. rarely if ever do I use reverb on distorted guitars.
only delay on Solos and melodic passages.
 
2- Guitar Amps: Not only the amp itself, it is also the speaker that compliments the amp.
Then add "Dialing it in" and proper Mic ing techniques. There is a lot to it.
At one point I used a 6505 or a Marshall JCM to get my tone and I went through countless speaker combo tests. Even know I have Approx. 10 different 1X12, 3 different 2X12's and A Marshall 1960 4X12.
I use a modified Marshall With a 2X12 Soldano cab (that has Celestion Vintage 30's.)
Though I have had luck using the G12T Hot 100's as well.
 
I just started experimenting with a Marshall Lead 12, running the line out in to a 7 watt tube head.
Different experiments tend to lead me to new ideas. The same will apply for you.
2016/11/30 08:41:40
stevesweat
http://www.jyuenger.com/?p=4526
this links to the guitarist describing his setup for that era. Sounds like tuning down to c# may be one secret...
2016/12/01 06:38:46
bobernaut
Hey man, trtz, chuck and steve--you guys are great! I knew there must be others out there that knew exactly what I was talking about. Thanks for the info trtz and dl. It is similar to what I am trying to get. I was afraid that you would say that about the big boys! Do I give up though? I am convinced that it may be possible to almost achieve the super-pro sound but it takes a tons of work. Haven't given up yet anyway! Thanks for your input!
 
I was wondering when ol chucke would ring in. Thanks man for your advice and all the info you passed my way. I don't want to become consumed by it (as you nearly have?) but I also must strive forward until I crack...
 
What have you used on your records that I have heard? was that digital, real or combo? It sounds real good man, not quite what I do but you have done it, in my opinion.
 
Hey steve, I appreciate what you did, it made me feel not quite so insane to hear that I am not the only one who thinks that sound is unusually special. I read through it all and sure enough, its the danged perfect doubling--which I have been trying so hard to do, that's mostly responsible for the sound. That's my opinion anyway. What you said is a factor also. Its nice that even this guy, with nothing but time and corporate dollars, also had an awful time with the doubling. I guess they all did from the sounds of it.
 
Thanks for taking the time with the links guys!
 
 
Did each of you guys produce your tunes from your home studio? If so, it sounds great and I am motivated even more.
 
Also, did you each master your own records or have someone else do it? I read that Chuck's was mastered elsewhere besides Mass. Just wondering. I am trying to do it all which I know you aren't supposed to....I never did listen too well.
 
Thanks everyone for your input and especially you guys that know exactly what I am going through, it means a lot!
 
bob
12
© 2026 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1

Use My Existing Forum Account

Use My Social Media Account