• SONAR
  • [Solved for me] The Bakery - I do not understand it... (p.5)
2016/11/23 11:33:17
bapu
pwalpwal
bapu
*That's not so say a .net programmer can't work on a website but it's rare that a web developer is also an application developer IME.
 




it's quite common ime, when the dev is "in house", typical management shortcut

ChristopherM
bapu
tenfoot
On the other hand, having just checked out the list of November updates, my bad. I take it all back.  It certainly hasn't slowed anything down! All power to the bakers:)


And The Bakery would not impede SONAR developement.
 
The Bakery and SONAR developemnt require two different day-to-day skillsets*
 
 
*That's not so say a .net programmer can't work on a website but it's rare that a web developer is also an application developer IME.
 


They may require different skillsets, but presumably they are competing for the same scarce funds.
 


The two of you seem assume that since it's what you may have experienced in the past it *must* be so at a company where you have no knowledge of it's inner workings.


I prefer to keep an open mind and assume, until told otherwise, that maybe just maybe The Bakers would be savvy enough to never put SONAR developers on web development stuff.
 
2016/11/23 11:34:25
bitman
ChristopherM
Am I the only one who gets a bad feeling when it takes Ryan more paragraphs than I had time to read to explain the rationale? Am I the only one who feels that the rating system is uncomfortably redolent of Black Mirror's Nosedive? 


No.


2016/11/23 11:35:49
scook
abacab
Is the Bakery just a replacement for the "Features & Ideas" forum, or is it intended to replace all of the other Cakewalk forums eventually?
 
I ask this because I have not seen this explained anywhere yet.


Reading http://bakery.cakewalk.com/How-It-Works it would seem the scope is larger than just replacing the "Features & Ideas" area.
2016/11/23 11:36:42
Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
ChristopherM
Hey, Ryan - How did you determine that I was working against you? You may or may not know that Nosedive is a cautionary parable about what goes wrong when an algorithmic rating system is too thoroughly and rigorously applied. It is, of course, fiction. I referenced it because the Bakery's rating scheme appears to have that kind of rigidity and therefore I am concerned that it will over-react. The present forum thankfully only allows soft censorship - posts can be marked as helpful and people can support or criticise ideas without fear of being disappeared. A user can block any other user without that affecting anybody else. If someone acts grossly against the forum guidelines, they may be banned only after review by a human being, but that is rightly a last resort. All of this appears to work. Automating it and locking it to a rigid scheme sounds like a backward step to me. I am not working against you - I am just articulating a concern. , and unfortunately the tenor of your response heightens my concern. Would my signal be regarded as noise in your new scheme?
 


Thanks Christopher for elaborating further. This is helpful feedback and when expressed in more detail makes much more sense to me. Right now nothing is overly aggressive and, as I was mentioning, we may tweak things as we go and I anticipate that this will be the case. We don't have any real feedback to go off yet though so it's difficult to say with any guarantee if we did a good job initially at setting up the system. The goal is definitely not to punish anyone and, if anything, is more focused on allowing us to relate whether or not Ideas and Answers to questions are good ones that are resulting in a positive outcome. We realize our posters are human beings and don't want a machine to dictate whether or not they're viewed as valuable.
 
I guess to explain my remark about working against us, I did say the signal and rewards were a work in progress, but since you said you didn't have the time to read my post in it's entirety, the feedback seemed like a stab at me and my attempt at explaining something. If you have a bad feeling, than my hope was to try to address it with my post, not have it glossed over and then have another member mark an indirect response as helpful without any insight as to why until I brought it up.
 
I guess, in other words, when we try to engage and users end up tallking to each-other around/about us, it doesn't seem as productive.
 
It's going to be difficult to discuss any of the merits of the system until some people spend some time with it, which is definitely what I encourage. I'm sure bugs will be pointed out, concerns will be raised, and we'll address them to the best of our ability.
2016/11/23 11:37:22
bitman
We're all gonna die!
2016/11/23 11:39:27
bapu
bitman
We're all gonna die!


Some sooner than others is the most likely outcome.


JMO.
2016/11/23 11:41:12
scook
 Platinum updates are for life
2016/11/23 11:41:40
Anderton
I submit that if the Bakery had been the only feedback mechanism for all these years and Cakewalk eliminated it in favor of a forum, people would be flipping out. "How can  anyone expect to pull meaningful data from a forum? It's an uncurated mess! I can never find what I want...the search function sucks, I have to use Google to find anything. Obviously Cakewalk isn't interested in meaningful feedback any more. It's sad, really. Eliminating the Bakery just proves that CW no longer cares about what their customers think."
 
 
2016/11/23 11:42:41
Anderton
But let's get real for a second. A forum is an extremely inefficient way for CW to get feedback. The devs don't have the time to wade through threads to discover whether there's something worthwhile in there or not. Stuff gets lost all the time, great ideas get stuck in the middle of a 7-page thread. The "Features and Ideas" forum sounds good in theory, but the forum software isn't up to the task of presenting information efficiently. With the Bakery, it's 100% clear what has the most interest, views, and votes; this info is available instantly.
 
There's a reason why Ableton, Propellerheads, Avid, MOTU, etc. have gone solely to FAQ-based support and no longer have forums. What Cakewalk is doing is a far more interactive option.
2016/11/23 11:44:42
pwalpwal
bapu
pwalpwal
bapu
*That's not so say a .net programmer can't work on a website but it's rare that a web developer is also an application developer IME.
 




it's quite common ime, when the dev is "in house", typical management shortcut

ChristopherM
bapu
tenfoot
On the other hand, having just checked out the list of November updates, my bad. I take it all back.  It certainly hasn't slowed anything down! All power to the bakers:)


And The Bakery would not impede SONAR developement.
 
The Bakery and SONAR developemnt require two different day-to-day skillsets*
 
 
*That's not so say a .net programmer can't work on a website but it's rare that a web developer is also an application developer IME.
 


They may require different skillsets, but presumably they are competing for the same scarce funds.
 


The two of you seem assume that since it's what you may have experienced in the past it *must* be so at a company where you have no knowledge of it's inner workings.


I prefer to keep an open mind and assume, until told otherwise, that maybe just maybe The Bakers would be savvy enough to never put SONAR developers on web development stuff.
 



not *must* but *quite common* in my experience, especially when belts are being tightened
 
xoxox
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