• SONAR
  • Timing Between Midi Track And VSTi TRack
2016/11/09 00:51:08
Ruckman65
I have a midi drum track. When I add a vsti to the project, such as Addictive Drums, and duplicate the midi track into Addictive Drums, the two tracks are never in sync. I have to move the vsti track back and forward until they are in sync. Is there any way to automate that process or stop it from happening in the first place?
2016/11/09 06:37:47
azslow3
What you use as the output for your original track? In other words, audio produced by which devices/software you try to sync with audio produces by AD?
And the second important question, how far are you moving clips so they are in sync? Several samples, 1-5ms or more?
 
I do not have problems with simultaneous output to TD-11 + AD, but I am home player and several ms delay is probably not an issue for me.
2016/11/09 07:41:33
Ruckman65
Hello Azslow3. I am using a Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6. The midi track generates sound through a Sound Canvas SC88 Pro running into the Komplete Audio 6. There is absolutely no latency with the Sound Canvas. I have to move the AD track forward anything up to around half a second. So, the difference in timing is quite significant. Same things happens if I have a midi track with, say, a guitar part and add a vsti such as Real Strat.    
2016/11/09 10:02:11
azslow3
Half a second is significant delay...
Probably you have already done that, but it does not take a lot of time to check:
1) Preferences/Audio/Driver settings. I assume you use ASIO. Is "Total Roundtrip" less then 50ms?
2) Preferences/Audio/Sync and Caching. Non zero Timing Offset or Manual Offset ?
3) Preferences/Project/MIDI. Anything set in "Send MIDI Sync" or "Send MIDI Time Code" ?
 
Freeze AD track. Bypass all audio effects ("E" or "FX" button on Control Bar). Does that change anything? Explicitly check that you do not have any mastering plug-ins in the project, they can introduce up to 1sec delay. To be sure, test you problem on completely new project without any effects.
 
You write you have no latency with Sound Canvas. Does that mean you can play live (from you Casio) into it throw Sonar (so, Casio on the track input, SC on the track output) without latency? Can you play AD live with Casio (better test in the same project in which you have the problem)?
 
If you really have to move AD track forward (in time) compare to SC, that means you ask VSTi to play LATER to be in sync with hardware SC. In case the problem is somewhere in the delayed audio route, I would expect reversed situation.
2016/11/10 04:32:33
Ruckman65
1) Preferences/Audio/Driver settings. I assume you use ASIO. Is "Total Roundtrip" less then 50ms?
Roundtrip of 18.3 ms
2) Preferences/Audio/Sync and Caching. Non zero Timing Offset or Manual Offset ?
Under 'Record Latency Adjustment', there is a Manual Offset box which is set at 0 by default. I cannot see any option with 'Non Zero Timing Offset'.
3) Preferences/Project/MIDI. Anything set in "Send MIDI Sync" or "Send MIDI Time Code" ?
Full chase lock is selected (Best when chasing to midi timecode. The offset is 0.00.
 
As suggested, I froze the AD track and ensured there were no plug ins at all. The latency is still there.
 
I can play through the Casio into AD and there is no latency. So, still unsure how to correct this!
 
 
2016/11/10 06:05:02
azslow3
I must admit, I am also puzzled now...
Ruckman65
I can play through the Casio into AD and there is no latency. So, still unsure how to correct this!

Can you do the following?
* set MIDI -> SC and MIDI -> AD Inputs to "Omni", check there is no "MIDI loops" in the project (no VSTi has "MIDI Output on", etc) and set "Input Echo" to "On" on both
* when you play with Casio, SC and AD should sound simultaneously. Do you have the delay in this case?
Arm both tracks and record several notes. Are resulting clips aligned? When you "play" recorded performance, does it sounds different from what you could hear live?
2016/11/10 18:22:15
bvideo
I don't suppose you are using "Direct monitoring for latency-free recording (inputs 1 / 2)" for your SC, are you?
2016/11/10 19:13:46
Cactus Music
First I don't see a mention of an audio interface in your signature. 
Are you using an ASIO audio interface? 
 
The drivers are the heart of the system and without knowing what your interfacing with we are guessing. 
2016/11/10 19:47:45
chuckebaby
Cactus Music
First I don't see a mention of an audio interface in your signature. 
Are you using an ASIO audio interface? 
 
The drivers are the heart of the system and without knowing what your interfacing with we are guessing. 


he is using an NI Komplete Audio 6. but agree with the drivers comment.
I believe someone asked him if he was using ASIO driver mode, but not sure if he answered.
this sounds to me like a classic case of latency.
2016/11/11 03:42:31
Ruckman65
chuckebaby
Cactus Music
First I don't see a mention of an audio interface in your signature. 
Are you using an ASIO audio interface? 
 
The drivers are the heart of the system and without knowing what your interfacing with we are guessing. 


he is using an NI Komplete Audio 6. but agree with the drivers comment.
I believe someone asked him if he was using ASIO driver mode, but not sure if he answered.
this sounds to me like a classic case of latency.


Yes, I am using NI Komplete Audio 6 and am using the ASIO driver. It sure seems like a latency issue but still can't figure out why or why the latency is so great. Sonar reports the roundtrip latency as 18ms which shouldn't make that much difference. 


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