What is the best way to set final levels ready for final mixdown/mastering.
For example if I have a song that contains 16 tracks of audio/midi and all
the individual track levels are set so none of them clip above -0.2db,when
the song is played back more often than not the MASTER bus meter can read
upto and over +5.0db. So do I
1.  pull back the sum of the individual track levels to avoid the Master Bus
    clipping(then apply mastering plugins)
2.  Leave the individual levels alone and pull back the Master level fader to
    set sum of mix to -0.2 db (then apply mastering plugins)
3.  Leave all faders alone despite excessive clipping(then apply mastering
    plugins) and use compressors,limiters and Boost11 etc etc to bring down
    level

Not sure how I posted that message of jasons?

The 64bit mix engine in SONAR allows you to choose just about any fader without a down side.

Use the faders and mix

You can go find a list of rules or steps for mixing... any list will do... or you can just start pulling down the faders and reestablish a balance at the proper output level.

Have fun and remember to listen a bunch... then step away... then come back and listen some more.

Have fun.

best regards,
mike

Jason, most mastering engineers I have dealt with want a mix that is consistent around -6 db on the main output of SONAR with the occasional transient peak hitting no hotter than -3db (and that's assuming you're not compressing your mix before you master which is also a good idea).

From what I read on your post it sounds like you're mixing way to hot. I pull the elements of your song down to a more acceptable level, then render the song and master it seperately. You'll be happier with the results and hopefully have more dynamics and depth to your song.

jason r


What is the best way to set final levels ready for final mixdown/mastering.
For example if I have a song that contains 16 tracks of audio/midi and all
the individual track levels are set so none of them clip above -0.2db,when
the song is played back more often than not the MASTER bus meter can read
upto and over +5.0db. So do I
1.  pull back the sum of the individual track levels to avoid the Master Bus
clipping(then apply mastering plugins)
2.  Leave the individual levels alone and pull back the Master level fader to
set sum of mix to -0.2 db (then apply mastering plugins)
3.  Leave all faders alone despite excessive clipping(then apply mastering
plugins) and use compressors,limiters and Boost11 etc etc to bring down
level

In theory the 64 bit mix engine and some 64 bit plugins are accurate enough to do any of your options

However you should be aware that many legacy plugins do not work with 64bit real math and will cause clipping if pushed above 0db

Therefore I would recommend you take option 1 and pull back all the individual tracks 6 - 10db.

I generally like to see my Kick in the -12 to -6db region on the Sonar peak meters and then take the mix from there

"and will cause clipping if pushed above 0db"

Which is why I recommend listening... if you do not hear the clipping you are not actually mixing.

Guidelines and rules are most useful for folks who don't intend to listen. :-)

Sooner or later you realize the faders are there for a reason. :-)

all the best,
mike

Thankyou all.Ok,pulled back all the track faders to around -6db which has got my master track(before applying plugins) to around -3 to -2db.The mix is already sounding a lot lot better(hearing the individual elements of the song now).Then I have applied in order SONITUS EQ (with treble boost preset),  BOOST11(with final mix preset)
and LP64 MULTIBAND(with mastering lighter preset). I have rendered original too hot mix,pulled back fader mix and this one with the plugins mentioned.
Difference is night and day. (While A/B the mixes)
Mix 1 is just a mess
Mix 2 sounds a million times better,just quieter
Mix 3 like mix 2,but louder and crisper.

Very pleased so far.Must start working harder now and practising on finalising the songs to sound better than I have done previously.
One finished song I have been applying the same technique to just still does not sound good though(muddy sound),so will concentrate my efforts on this.Thanks for the tips so far though,it really has made a difference(was mixing down for too hot).

You don't need to use fader to pull back level.
If your project is 24-bit or above you could pull back on the input gain (trim <- John :-)) while faders at zero. Get all tracks around -20dB RMS. Use K-20 meter system on your master and then start mixing with the track faders. That's an easy explanation. If you need it louder, turn up your speakers. And as mentioned above, do mastering seperate, e.g. using k-14 metering system ...
You should not peak tracks while recording. If you peak tracks while mixing it does not mean problem. Use your ears. But some plugins reacts like hardware and can't take to hard input signal. And do not peak master out!

Edit: If your mix sounds muddy you may try eq tracks to separate them. BTW the best book I ever found on mixing is this book called  Mixing Audio. Very recomended. Have a look at the sample .pdf chapter. The rest of the book is in same detail going thru a lot.
And this 80 page long tread about The Reason Most ITB mixes don’t Sound as good as Analog mixes is a good read :-)

You don't need to use fader to pull back level.
If your project is above 24-bit you should pull back on the input gain while faders at zero. Get all tracks around -20dB RMS. Use K-20 meter system on your master and then start mixing with the track faders. That's an easy explanation. If you need it louder, turn up your speakers. And as mentioned above, do mastering seperate, e.g. using k-14 metering system ...
You should not peak tracks while recording. If you peak tracks while mixing it does not mean problem. Use your ears. But some plugins reacts like hardware and can't take to hard input signal. And do not peak master out!

Right thats why all mixing decks and control surfaces have motorized faders for trim and not for volume.

<John> I don't know if I understood you, but I ment the input gain trim in Sonar. Do not have sonar right here. Did not remember exact name :-) And I may not be correctly using words as loud(ness), volume and level ... Was a quick reply. Edited my post slightly but not perfect. My english is not the best and I'm at work having my boss around the corner, hehe