Hi John,

I wasn't referring to using the trims as a means of mixing.  To put it into slightly more specific terms, -6dbfs = the new 0.0, i.e., keep the peaks completely out of the red zone.  

I give this as a suggestion for recording input levels for the primary reason that it works exceptionally well with prosumer A/D devices and a lot of plugins, which is what the vast majority of the folks in this forum use for their productions. 

"I give this as a suggestion for recording input levels for the primary reason that it works exceptionally well with prosumer A/D devices and a lot of plugins, which is what the vast majority of the folks in this forum use for their productions."

When qualified with those details it seems to me to be more valuable info. :-)

best,
mike

John, I guess you misunderstood me. I ment he could use the trims to get a good starting point if tracks are very hot or in very different levels. Then start using the faders and mix like we are supposed to. Not to be rude, but have a look at the long 80 page tread I link to in a post above.

We must be talking past one another then. However I do have a problem with routinely adjusting trim on a DAW.  If you are recording then you have control on the recorded levels. You shouldn't have to mess with a DAWs trim to readjust the level. I have been using a mixer as a front end to digital audio for many years now. I am careful with levels before they ever get into the DAW.  This is one reason I find the often posted advice to use the trim as bad practice. Sure it can be used for fixing mistakes or even for find adjustments. But I really look at this as somehow due to poor recording technique. Of course I use the trims on the mixer and the faders as well but that is before it gets to the DAW and before its digitized.  Some call this proper gain staging a fancy name for checking your levels before the record button is hit. That also means rerecording if ones first run was off.  I look at this as a kind of "fixing it in the mix" way of doing things and not paying attention to detail. The thing that seems to missing here with Sonar is the audio in on the disk unaffected by the trim control. If its well recorded that audio will need very little processing or adjustment.  The other thing as you know multi tracks with sum and cause overs in the master buss. The best way to deal with this is lower all the faders. Leave the buss along if at all possible. I didn't read the link you gave but I know what I am saying works and works well. I hope this clears up this subject.

jsaras


Hi John,

I wasn't referring to using the trims as a means of mixing.  To put it into slightly more specific terms, -6dbfs = the new 0.0, i.e., keep the peaks completely out of the red zone.  

I give this as a suggestion for recording input levels for the primary reason that it works exceptionally well with prosumer A/D devices and a lot of plugins, which is what the vast majority of the folks in this forum use for their productions. 

I knew we would not be in disagreement.  I guess it was the way you worded it that threw me off.

Good recording technique is of course best. I seldom use trim too. But I recieved tracks from other people which sometimes are not the best, and then the trim can be helpfull. The "resolution" on the lower part of faders are not so good as on the top. So if you need small changes in level it is better working on the upper part than down at let's say -25 dB on the faders. So trim can help.
We don't know what Jason (tread starter) have in that project. Could be anything from loops to selfrecorded stuff or what ever.

John

However I do have a problem with routinely adjusting trim on a DAW. 

Sorry, John, but that's just a rather bizarre point of view.

This isn't that magical is it? Just lower the vol on all tracks and watch the summing volume in the master bus. Oh, the OP is using a master bus, right?

j boy

John

However I do have a problem with routinely adjusting trim on a DAW. 

Sorry, John, but that's just a rather bizarre point of view.

I kinda agree with John.  If you find yourself having to adjust trim values on a regular basis, it is most likely because your gain-staging was not ideal when you hit the record button.  The trim is a band-aid.  Having said that, I'm sure if I was forced to, I could mix a song just fine using the trims instead of faders.  Maybe I'll try it someday when a client pisses me off.

Yeah it's rare I use Trim when mixing, and it's usually a gain-staging issue to just get a minor tweak. Volume is volume for a reason.

I use trim on a bus all the time... it's hard to imagine a need on a track... unless you want to route to a send in some specific scenario and ride the trim before it to effect both the send and the primary output simultaneously.

best regards,
mike