• SONAR
  • Sonar 8.5 Producer - Is This a Bug? (p.2)
2016/11/13 19:58:48
Annabelle
SquireBum
Annabelle
SquireBum
Annabelle,
  I ran my old version of SONAR 8.5 and tested fade-in and fade-out for both snap to grid functionality and audible effect.  Everything worked on my system as expected, but I don't use any type of screen reader, such as JAWS, on my system.
 
Hope this helps,
Ron
 


Did the Numpad Plus and Numpad Minus keys work in Enhanced Clips mode to increase and decrease the fadeout?
By the way, I have Windows 7, not Windows 10. Mine is also 64 bit version.




I just tried Enhanced keyboard editing mode in both SONAR 8.5 and SONAR Platinum 2016.10.  Fade in and fade out do not follow Snap to Grid.  Cropping does follow Snap to Grid.  Both SONAR versions function the same way on my system.
 
Hope this helps,
Ron




Did you get the same results I did? In other words, were you able to hear the results of a fade-in, but not hear the results of a fade-out? If that is the case, is there a bugfix for this problem I have?
2016/11/13 22:18:23
chuckebaby
Annabelle
SquireBum
Annabelle
SquireBum
Annabelle,
  I ran my old version of SONAR 8.5 and tested fade-in and fade-out for both snap to grid functionality and audible effect.  Everything worked on my system as expected, but I don't use any type of screen reader, such as JAWS, on my system.
 
Hope this helps,
Ron
 


Did the Numpad Plus and Numpad Minus keys work in Enhanced Clips mode to increase and decrease the fadeout?
By the way, I have Windows 7, not Windows 10. Mine is also 64 bit version.




I just tried Enhanced keyboard editing mode in both SONAR 8.5 and SONAR Platinum 2016.10.  Fade in and fade out do not follow Snap to Grid.  Cropping does follow Snap to Grid.  Both SONAR versions function the same way on my system.
 
Hope this helps,
Ron




Did you get the same results I did? In other words, were you able to hear the results of a fade-in, but not hear the results of a fade-out? If that is the case, is there a bugfix for this problem I have?


if it is some sort of bug, there will never be a fix for it. there were no updates for 8.5 and it's 5 versions old.


2016/11/14 01:15:22
Annabelle
chuckebaby
Annabelle
SquireBum
Annabelle
SquireBum
Annabelle,
  I ran my old version of SONAR 8.5 and tested fade-in and fade-out for both snap to grid functionality and audible effect.  Everything worked on my system as expected, but I don't use any type of screen reader, such as JAWS, on my system.
 
Hope this helps,
Ron
 


Did the Numpad Plus and Numpad Minus keys work in Enhanced Clips mode to increase and decrease the fadeout?
By the way, I have Windows 7, not Windows 10. Mine is also 64 bit version.




I just tried Enhanced keyboard editing mode in both SONAR 8.5 and SONAR Platinum 2016.10.  Fade in and fade out do not follow Snap to Grid.  Cropping does follow Snap to Grid.  Both SONAR versions function the same way on my system.
 
Hope this helps,
Ron




Did you get the same results I did? In other words, were you able to hear the results of a fade-in, but not hear the results of a fade-out? If that is the case, is there a bugfix for this problem I have?


if it is some sort of bug, there will never be a fix for it. there were no updates for 8.5 and it's 5 versions old.




I sure wish I could find a way to make it work for fade-outs. It seems I can't get a fade-out longer than 0.5 seconds. When I press the Numpad minus key to increase the time of the fade-out, nothing seems to change. Either that, or it's reeeeeeeally sloooowww to change. I know that Sonar 8.5 is still available through http://www.dancingdots.com. That's where I originally got it from.
2016/11/14 02:19:44
SquireBum
Annabelle
SquireBum
Annabelle
SquireBum
Annabelle,
  I ran my old version of SONAR 8.5 and tested fade-in and fade-out for both snap to grid functionality and audible effect.  Everything worked on my system as expected, but I don't use any type of screen reader, such as JAWS, on my system.
 
Hope this helps,
Ron
 


Did the Numpad Plus and Numpad Minus keys work in Enhanced Clips mode to increase and decrease the fadeout?
By the way, I have Windows 7, not Windows 10. Mine is also 64 bit version.




I just tried Enhanced keyboard editing mode in both SONAR 8.5 and SONAR Platinum 2016.10.  Fade in and fade out do not follow Snap to Grid.  Cropping does follow Snap to Grid.  Both SONAR versions function the same way on my system.
 
Hope this helps,
Ron




Did you get the same results I did? In other words, were you able to hear the results of a fade-in, but not hear the results of a fade-out? If that is the case, is there a bugfix for this problem I have?


 
Annabelle,

I tried fade in and fade out using the Numpad plus and minus keys.  I was able to hear the results of the fade in and fade out.  The fade out seemed more subtle than the fade in, but I tested it on a guitar audio clip, which has a strong starting transient that will be most affected by a fade in.  Guitar notes naturally fade, which gave the impression of a more subtle fade out.  The fade out was definitely working, because the clip ended with an audible pop when the fade out was not active.
 
Just my opinion, but I always consider clip fade in and fade out as a tool to eliminate clicks and pops caused when slicing clips.  The length of a fade is usually measured in milliseconds.  I don't believe clip fades were intended to be used for whole track or song fades.  For track or song fades, I think a volume automation envelope on a track or bus is a far superior tool.  Volume automation allows a fade to occur over several measures if that is what you desire.
 
The bottom line is that I don't think you are encountering a bug.
 
Hope this helps,
Ron
2016/11/14 14:11:10
tlw
The perception of a fade out or in is greatly affected by the "shape" of the fade curve.

A straight line (a linear fade) is perceived as gaining most of it's volume very near the start of the fade if it's a fade in and retaining most of its volume until very near the end if it's a fade out.

A fade in that gains most volume change towards the end of the fade in or loses most at the start by using a curve that's more logarithmic sounds smoother and more natural. For whatever reason, that's how we perceive it. I don't know if it's possible for you to control the fade curves or not, but if you're cuttently using straight-line linear fades (the default) and can change that try using fade-ins that start slowly and gather speed and fade-outs that do the reverse.
2016/11/14 17:58:37
Annabelle
tlw
The perception of a fade out or in is greatly affected by the "shape" of the fade curve.

A straight line (a linear fade) is perceived as gaining most of it's volume very near the start of the fade if it's a fade in and retaining most of its volume until very near the end if it's a fade out.

A fade in that gains most volume change towards the end of the fade in or loses most at the start by using a curve that's more logarithmic sounds smoother and more natural. For whatever reason, that's how we perceive it. I don't know if it's possible for you to control the fade curves or not, but if you're cuttently using straight-line linear fades (the default) and can change that try using fade-ins that start slowly and gather speed and fade-outs that do the reverse.

Is there a specific button I can press to go to a submenu that will allow me to change the fade curve that will affect the fade-out via the plus and minus numpad keys? For example, I press Numpad * as a keyboard equivalent to a right-mouse-click, and depending on where I am in Sonar, it will take me to a context menu that has a set of choices dealing with a certain parameter. An example of that would be, if I'm on a clip that has a fade-in at the start, or in this case, a fade-out near the end, even though JAWS won't report that, I press the Numpad * key, and I'm supposed to land on a context menue that lists choices of three fade types, "Linear", "Fast Curve", and "Slow Curve". However, since I believe that the fade parameter is a graphic of a triangle, which is clearly an image, JAWS doesn't exactly see what it is, but yet there's some way that it recognizes that I have pointed the "JAWS Cursor", which is different from the regular "PC Cursor", to the start of where the fade-out should begin. So if a "Linear" fade is a straight line, how would I describe a "Fast Curve" and a "Slow Curve"? Would they be like wavy lines? Or maybe diagonal lines?
2016/11/14 21:30:52
Cactus Music
Sorry I didn't get a chance over the weekend, but I just fired up Sonar 8.5 Pro and tried your fade outs and I have no problem at all making any type I desire.  So sorry there is no bug at all. 
The icons will show for the choices they look like a 45 degree angle for linear and then a slope with a dip for fast and a slope with a bump for slow. I'd post the picture but I know that's not going to help you. 
2016/11/14 22:15:09
Annabelle
Cactus Music
Sorry I didn't get a chance over the weekend, but I just fired up Sonar 8.5 Pro and tried your fade outs and I have no problem at all making any type I desire.  So sorry there is no bug at all. 
The icons will show for the choices they look like a 45 degree angle for linear and then a slope with a dip for fast and a slope with a bump for slow. I'd post the picture but I know that's not going to help you. 


I tried putting accessibility mode on in the registry keys, but I'm not sure if that really did anything. Maybe if you send me an email, I can share with you an example project where I'm having trouble with fade-outs.
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