• Hardware
  • Pure MIDI interface for win10
2016/07/15 03:33:33
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
I'm about to upgrade audio interface(s) to most likely the MOTU AVB series (1248, 8M), but these units do not come with MIDI ports anymore.
 
So what are best options to add several MIDI ports these days on win10? I had a brief look at MOTU Micro Lite (5 ports) and MOTU MIDI express (8 ports). However, these units came out back in 2003 ...
 
So I wonder if I should go with either of these or use something more recent / more cost effective?? e.g. I use MIDI MATE USB to MIDI for the live rigs and they work fine, but I only control external FX and video; hence I never recorded any MIDI performance with the 20€ gadgets and don't know whether they respond the same.
 
I don't need anything fancy (in terms of MIDI options; don't need no patch bay, MIDI filter, etc.), but if I had 4-5 MIDI IN/OUT ports I could leave everything plugged.
 
Cheers,
 
Rob
2016/07/15 05:19:46
Jeff Evans
I have been through this process and there are not many to choose from. MOTU Midi Express XT is the one to get and it was re released in 2011 by the way so your assertion that it has not been changed since 2003 is incorrect. They have improved it and added an extra SMPTE time code feature.  Anyway even it has not been changed since 2003 if it works, it works.
 
Its on special right now for $349 at GC up to July 17th I believe. Having more output ports is never a problem either. Works with Win 10 as well.
 
 
 
 
 
 
2016/07/15 11:43:40
WallyG
Jeff Evans
I have been through this process and there are not many to choose from. MOTU Midi Express XT is the one to get and it was re released in 2011 by the way so your assertion that it has not been changed since 2003 is incorrect. They have improved it and added an extra SMPTE time code feature.  Anyway even it has not been changed since 2003 if it works, it works.
 
Its on special right now for $349 at GC up to July 17th I believe. Having more output ports is never a problem either. Works with Win 10 as well.
 



I'be been using the MOTU MIDI Express XT for three years and yes, it keeps on working...
 
Walt
2016/07/15 13:20:31
rsinger
I've been using the Motu MIDI Express XT for 3 or 4 years. I like it and haven't had any problems.
2016/07/15 13:44:23
bvideo
The MOTU midi express 128 is less expensive than the XT. 8 ports, but no internal routing, no SMPTE or any other special clocking features. Works fine with Sonar.
2016/07/15 16:01:40
Jeff Evans
Rob I was going to get the Motu XT as well but ended up picking up a Steinberg Midex 8 which also works great.  Steinberg have written Win 7 drivers for it even after it went out of production.  That works well on Win7.  They have some slick front panel features not found on others.  I am wondering if once I go to Win 10 the Midex will still work.  Do most Win 7 drivers run on Win 10?
 
Timing is everything and it is important to get that midi interface running well in terms of midi latency and also how accurate the start of midi notes are in relation to audio and the metronome.
 
It is when you play live and how well those performances are captured and played back that is also important for me.  (with and without the click)  I am a drummer turned added keyboard synth player so I have a strong sense of this timing and it how it feels.  I use Studio One and I think it is great in this area.  There was a thread over on the Presonus forum about someone getting midi and audio timing out by 30 mS from each other.  The audio always being late in regard to the start of the midi note.  That prompted me to test and adjust my system.
 
Another good thing to do is get a PCI based USB card and run the midi interface on that instead.  It has no interference with any other USB devices then.  Running nicely on its own.  I found anyway.  My audio is on a PCI card too so there is nothing on my USB buses anyway.  The various pairs of USB outputs on the back of a desktop computer are often on separate USB buses too.  Try to get the interface running on its own USB buss.
 
I am getting sub second mS timing down to 0.2 mS and in many cases 0.1 mS. Sometimes it varies by a mS or so and this may be due to midi jitter but on my system the midi note start is always early to the audio by the same time (approx 0.2 mS) and does not seem to jitter around.
 
These figures are also for one synth playing one part too.  Once you start sending multiple midi channels down a single port these note start times can and will get altered and delayed more.  Use up your 8 ports with one synth only one each port and one midi channel of data only.  I have got 6 hardware synths and 2 computers as virtual instruments on all 8 ports.  That is a lot.  Hearing 8 parts playing back before you even turn on any virtual instruments is a very big sound.  And it is all happening on the midi side of your program barely taking any resources away from your audio system in your DAW.  Working this way with synths allows you to compose create and edit the music so easily.  Tempos can be adjusted in a flash.
 
It is good to do some tests and see how the midi side of your setup is running and how accurate it is.  It is also good to test the latency of your synths one by one.  eg Compare the start of the midi note to when the audio first appears.  It is nice to be able to adjust midi tracks timing wise in your DAW and get them to play early by the synth latency times putting the audio more where it should be.  Studio One lets you offset the midi timing and audio timing in your system.  Sonar would have it for sure.  So if your midi note start times are say 3 mS early compared to the audio, you should be able to adjust that by adding 3 mS to midi timing and then it ends up within tiny fraction of a mS compared to audio.  That is what Motu mean I think for the spec of sub mS timing accuracy as they report in their advertising.  The Midex can do it and so can Emagic Unitor 8 too.  I think Unitor 8 drivers stopped working a few Microsoft OS versions ago now though.
 
I have a Unitor 8 running on another Win XP 32 bit machine on the serial port and it is fast too.  Under Logic it works great.  Midex  (LTB - Linear Time Base) and Unitor  (AMT - Active Midi Transmission)  have the ability with Cubase and Logic to be able to improve midi timing by a factor again.  Those programs send the midi notes early to their interfaces and then the midi note start times are adjusted and let out to be all be super tight on all 8 ports.  As far as I know Express XT does not have that ability but the timing over 8 ports should be excellent anyway.  My Midex does not operate that way with Studio One either so it is operating the same way Express XT would.  And it is excellent.
 
The Express XT is an obvious choice for me too if I have to go to Win 10.  I have heard they are very reliable and having an internal power supply is a nice plus too.
 
 
 
2016/07/15 17:57:33
SuperG
I'm really happy with the Motu Microlite. It's pretty rugged - I've never had any problems with it. The drivers for it are current and it works on Windows 10 just fine. Port powered, no wall-wart needed.
2016/07/17 04:51:10
Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
Thanks all for your input. I appreciate it.
 
Jeff Evans
Rob I was going to get the Motu XT as well but ended up picking up a Steinberg Midex 8 which also works great.  Steinberg have written Win 7 drivers for it even after it went out of production.  That works well on Win7.  They have some slick front panel features not found on others.  I am wondering if once I go to Win 10 the Midex will still work.  Do most Win 7 drivers run on Win 10?

 
Jeff, there are ways to make win7 drivers work with win10. Once you go for win10, checkout what the guys did over in the Cakewalk Hardware forum to get the Roland devices to work on win10 - that should apply to other brands. It's rather straightforward if you follow their procedure. You basically need to turn off some checks (driver signing) before installing win7 drivers, but after installation it all seems to work as on win7 (it did in my case with "legacy" win7 drivers).
 
Jeff Evans
Timing is everything and it is important to get that midi interface running well in terms of midi latency and also how accurate the start of midi notes are in relation to audio and the metronome.
 
[...]
 
Another good thing to do is get a PCI based USB card and run the midi interface on that instead.  It has no interference with any other USB devices then.  Running nicely on its own.  I found anyway.  My audio is on a PCI card too so there is nothing on my USB buses anyway.  The various pairs of USB outputs on the back of a desktop computer are often on separate USB buses too.  Try to get the interface running on its own USB buss.
 
I am getting sub second mS timing down to 0.2 mS and in many cases 0.1 mS. Sometimes it varies by a mS or so and this may be due to midi jitter but on my system the midi note start is always early to the audio by the same time (approx 0.2 mS) and does not seem to jitter around.

[...]
 
It is good to do some tests and see how the midi side of your setup is running and how accurate it is.  It is also good to test the latency of your synths one by one.  eg Compare the start of the midi note to when the audio first appears.  It is nice to be able to adjust midi tracks timing wise in your DAW and get them to play early by the synth latency times putting the audio more where it should be.  Studio One lets you offset the midi timing and audio timing in your system.  Sonar would have it for sure.  So if your midi note start times are say 3 mS early compared to the audio, you should be able to adjust that by adding 3 mS to midi timing and then it ends up within tiny fraction of a mS compared to audio.  That is what Motu mean I think for the spec of sub mS timing accuracy as they report in their advertising. 
 
[...]
 
The Express XT is an obvious choice for me too if I have to go to Win 10.  I have heard they are very reliable and having an internal power supply is a nice plus too.



That is great advice. After having worked with the same setup for like 4 years now, I intend to make some serious improvements with the focus on quality and stability.  Hence, I'm researching and come August testing some new devices.  Currently I'm still undecided whether to go RME or MOTU AVB for audio (but MOTU seems to lead the race at the moment) as I want lowest possible latency at maximum stability, while having enough I/O to record a rock band setup ...
 
MIDI wasn't even much in the picture so far (until I realized that when going the AVB route I would be lacking MIDI I/O) and I have to admit I never thought about measuring MIDI latency.  Being a bass player turned into drummer who plays/programs synth backings I usually just play the parts until they feel right - and if the notes look funny on the piano roll I do not care if it sounded right (yet with some external synths I noticed notes not aligning visually where I would have heard/played them) - so thanks for the tip: I'll take some time to measure latencies of those synth and modules that I use ... once I have the new MIDI interface, which will very likely be the Express XT i.e. I rather spend a little extra than again compromise somewhere ...
 
 
2016/07/17 06:34:42
fireberd
From what I see on the tenforums, its hit or miss with Win 7 drivers.  Some work, some will never work.  For non Win 10 specific drivers, Win 8.1 drivers seem to be the most compatible.
 
I was able to get my PCR500 midi keyboard working in Win 10 by hacking the Win 7 drivers, but that is only because of how Roland wrote the drivers.  Drivers from other vendors may not be "hackable" like the Roland drivers.
2016/07/17 19:49:53
Jesse G
 I am using the Motu Micro lite with 5X5 midi ports with Windows 10 Pro. The only down fall is that it must use USB 2.0 not USB 3.0
 
See the  ~~~>  MOTU Micro Lite
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