bitflipper
OK, here's a comparison for you:
 
I've had perhaps a dozen crashes with SONAR in 14 years. All but one one of them was caused by a plugin, not SONAR.
 
I've had 8 crashes with Studio One in 4 days. Mostly access violations, all raised in Studio One.exe.
 
This does not inspire confidence.
 
The good news is that Studio One does generate minidumps by default.

My experience as well.  I really hate recording in Studio One.  As I said my use of Studio One was simply for collaboration with Mac users.  I would often track in Sonar and export the wave files into Studio One.
 
For the person who said we are silly to bring this up because we've only been using a few days, I've been using it for 7 years.
 
I get that S1 works flawlessly for some, but not eveyone's workflow and requirements are the same.  I am usually recording 16 tracks or more simultaneously.  You think that Studio One would handle that better as it was build for their studio live mixers, although Studio One seems more stable on a Mac than on PC.
 
That's one of my reasons for switching to Cubase, is there are more Cubase Windows users than Mac users, so there is more attention to development on Windows.

Is there a way in Studio One to "Center the Now Time" as SONAR would put it? This is driving my crazy. In SONAR I assigned a key command that when I push it centers my view where the "Now Time" is. I don't know what Studio One calls it, but I hope there is a way to do that. Does anyone know? Thanks in advance.

try looking here:
 
https://forums.presonus.com/
 

Audioicon

sharke
nobody has ever been able to demonstrate conclusively that one DAW sounds different to another. 

 
Correct! Which is why some of the comments are just out of place.
One DAW should not sound different, unless there are effects and or processing applied to the sound.

AI
 

Sigh...
 
Maybe better isn't the word as that is subjective. But to say that all DAWs are absolutely identical when summing tracks and exporting them is simply not true. Have you ever done a real test? 
 
So no body is hurt, I won't say that one is better than another anymore as one may have different ideas of what is better. But as sure as the sun will rise again, there are absolutely differences. It's a simple test to confirm. 
 
If you import the same tracks into SONAR and Studio One or whatever DAW, make a fader move (no plugins!) then export. Export from each DAW. Bring them into another DAW, both starting at zero, flip the phase on one then play back. If they are the same, they will cancel each other out and you will hear nothing. If you hear anything, there is scientific proof that something is different. If you do this, you will see that they do not null (cancel out). That means there is a difference, they are not the same. That is all I and a large number of others is saying. They are not identical. Try the test yourself.
 

telecharge
I've posted this before, but here it is again: Audio Myths & DAW Wars
 
Although I likely won't be upgrading to Studio One Pro myself, I would encourage anyone interested in Studio One to pay attention to Jeff Evans. He's one of the most knowledgeable users on this forum, and a nice guy, too.
 
Thanks for all your great posts, Jeff!

I co-sign this. One of the reasons i stayed on this forum desliye using Sonar kess and kess is because the information that people like Jeff and bitflopper post. I have never seen him post BS. I can say his posts have improved my results exponentially regatsless of what DAW I am using.

I have asked year after year for proof that Mixbus does something magical aside from the built-in saturation and compressuon and always got a bunch of rhetoric. When people like Jeff acfually did objective tests my suspicions were confirmed that one could setup a default chain that would produce similar results in any DAW.

Sylvan

Audioicon

sharke
nobody has ever been able to demonstrate conclusively that one DAW sounds different to another. 

 
Correct! Which is why some of the comments are just out of place.
One DAW should not sound different, unless there are effects and or processing applied to the sound.

AI
 

Sigh...
 
Maybe better isn't the word as that is subjective. But to say that all DAWs are absolutely identical when summing tracks and exporting them is simply not true. Have you ever done a real test? 
 
So no body is hurt, I won't say that one is better than another anymore as one may have different ideas of what is better. But as sure as the sun will rise again, there are absolutely differences. It's a simple test to confirm. 
 
If you import the same tracks into SONAR and Studio One or whatever DAW, make a fader move (no plugins!) then export. Export from each DAW. Bring them into another DAW, both starting at zero, flip the phase on one then play back. If they are the same, they will cancel each other out and you will hear nothing. If you hear anything, there is scientific proof that something is different. If you do this, you will see that they do not null (cancel out). That means there is a difference, they are not the same. That is all I and a large number of others is saying. They are not identical. Try the test yourself.
 

I'm sorry but if both mixes null perfectly with faders at unity then that to me is proof that the summing engines are the same. If you're not nulling perfectly after moving one of the faders by the same amount then that's hardly proof that the DAWs sum differently. It could just be that there is a small discrepancy with how the faders work - perhaps one of the DAW's isn't lowering the signal by the full amount that it's reporting you pulled the fader down by. This will just alter the balance of the tracks relative to each other, which in turn will affect the overall tonal balance of the song to the point where you get some left over when trying to null with the other mix. You might even comment on a difference in "warmth" or some other tonal quality that is present in the track that you moved the fader on. 
 
Put it this way - what could faders possibly do to the sound apart from increasing or decreasing the volume level of a track? How could they possibly "add warmth" or "improve the stereo spread" or anything else that isn't just relative volume? And why would this "different" sound be absent with the faders at unity?  Imagine trying to market that: "And Cakewalk Sonar comes with a vastly superior summing engine that sounds better than the competition - as long as you move at least one fader!" Doesn't make sense. 
 
 

dubdisciple
I have asked year after year for proof that Mixbus does something magical aside from the built-in saturation and compressuon and always got a bunch of rhetoric. When people like Jeff acfually did objective tests my suspicions were confirmed that one could setup a default chain that would produce similar results in any DAW.

What I really like about MixBus is using the controls right on the console, so I use very few plugins, hence never have to open and close plugin windows, and that's wonderful.  I love that.  It was here I also first encountered a proper track list, and that greatly improves project navigation, especially with large projects.  With just the console processing, I could usually get the sound I was looking for very quickly, but I really missed the workflow and other features of Studio One.  I also didn't like how the controls were so tiny on the screen.
 
As a "best of both worlds", I added Softube Console 1 with the SSL 4000 E emulation a few months ago to go along with Studio One and it's a fixture on every channel and bus that's been great.  Very easy to select channels, huge, easy to read display, physical control surface, and 10% discount on a floor model.  Win, win, win.

bitflipper
[
Yes, I did skip X1, X2, X3 and the first year of SPlat. I ran the very stable 8.5 all that time, and when rolling updates commenced I rarely updated on day one. I have settled upon a set of stable third-party components from the likes of FabFilter for my bread 'n butter processors, and similarly don't update them immediately, either. My system has been pretty reliable over the years.
 
And yes, it's a natural reaction to blame the environment, on the seemingly logical presumption that if such crashes were commonplace then we'd have surely heard about them. This, sadly, is not the case - for any complex application. Such an admittedly comforting belief can only be sustained by a fundamental misunderstanding of what crashes are and why they occur.
 
When an application fails with a C0000005 error, it's a bug. It means the program attempted to write to an invalid memory location, and is almost always caused by a null pointer. Programmers are not supposed to allow that to happen, but it's very easy to overlook a possible null pointer scenario. In can be extremely difficult to duplicate a crash scenario (which is why crash dumps exist). So it's an entirely forgivable mistake, but still a bug. Not sunspots, not RFI, not humidity, not the brand of speakers or audio interface you use.
 
External components are also part of that environment. The C++ runtime library, the audio drivers, plugins, Windows support DLLS - they can all crash an application. However, the crash dump tells you which module raised the error, which is how I know that 13 of my 14 SONAR crashes were caused by plugins. My current dumps identify Studio One.exe as the module that raised the errors.
 
My test project is minimal: no audio, no effects, just 4 MIDI tracks driving a single instance of Omnisphere. My environment has not changed other than to install some other DAWs. Mixcraft, Reaper and Tracktion all run smoothly with no crashes. And of course, SONAR, which hasn't seen a crash in literally years.
 
Now, I want to emphasize that I have not written off Studio One as a result of these crashes. I quite like the MIDI implementation and overall ease-of-use. It's a well-designed product. All this experience does is call into question the idea that Studio One will necessarily assure greater stability.
 

 
Your first comment here Is the 'holy grail' of having a stable DAW. I too have always maintained my studio and live performance rigs with a very limited number of favourite plugins and a stable release of Sonar - and offline. I have a third PC on which I try the latest of anything that takes my fancy, and it is almost never stable. You are also absolutey right in stating 'it works on my system therefore it's not the software' is completely unfounded - and infuriating:) It is no better than the oft sighted 'other software runs fine, therefore its a bug in Sonar' forum favourite. I was not implying either.  I am fully aware that you know your @#£% and have never seen you post anything but the most reasoned observations on any software. I was expressing genuine amazement at how quickly Studio One went pear shaped on your system. Apologies if it seemed any other way.
 
I wish in hindsight I had skipped everything from X1 to X3d. X3e is when the world came good again for me:) That said, I think the Sonar we have now is in part a good outcome of the chaos of that skylight overhaul period. Its a double edged sword. For my money Cubase is an example of software that has not taken too many big risks. I had Version 1 for windows 3 on an Osborne computer back in the early 90's, and I swear it still looks similar:)
 

Jeff Evans
You can already do quick groups and make changes to many tracks/channels at once.  I think it is time to start learning the program properly.  All that is very basic stuff.

agree +1000% percent....  rest of us had to learn it... groove 3 does a silly amount of videos for a start..so  using it for 1-2 hours / days.. try using it for 1+ month.. and 70%+ of these comments to me are "none questions"
 
daw's by nature should be  magnolia /vanilla  sounding until you add anything em.. whether it be vstfx or console/channel add ons , that colours the sound.
 
spend time using it, for a month.. if you still have the same questions.. fair enough.
 

jadonx
Just checked CTC-1 Pro on audio deluxe for around £50 right now... £73 on Presonus site :)

 
they gave away the other add on free (channel strip) before, as like other US companies, look around. I'll only buy add ons when they are on sale.. joke being "source" their uk distro , is 5-10 minutes up the road.. won't price match stuff that I find, which is an annoyance as I'd rather a uk company gets a cut of it as well.