2012/06/12 15:20:54
Jonbouy
LOL!!!

I just realised I've had a brain fart too.

The fact is that Channel Tools is an inline tool so whatever goes it always comes out as L/R stereo so it can only be used for listening in-line.

I've just looked at my template and I'm actually using MSED for the set up described above.  The template is fine other than you'll need to delete the Channel Tools instance in the Split bin and put MSED in there set to encode to Mid Side and in the Merge bus bin set to decode back to stereo.

http://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/

My apologies.  I've since updated the original recipe.

That'll teach me not to spout off from memory and make sure I go through the process myself when giving instruction...
2012/06/12 18:22:51
Alegria
Well I'm not hearing a major difference between the 2 methods, but have adjusted my template with MSED (which I already had). Soloing the "Side" buss is where there's a slight noticeable difference. Does this sound right?

It may also be a good opportunity to mention the famous "silent bus" warning and how to suppress it.

--> Preferences | Initialization file, add a variable called WarnSilentBuses and set it to 0.


2012/06/12 18:23:03
alexoosthoek
Hope you learn from it

Anyway this thingy does a lot of good to my room-recordings!
2012/06/12 18:48:33
Jonbouy
alexoosthoek


Hope you learn from it

Anyway this thingy does a lot of good to my room-recordings!

Yep the excercise here really is to be able to split channel routings to access them indepenently before recombining.  There are many uses for doing it that don't involve mid-side also.

@Alegria

Make sure the first instance of MSED 'Split' is set to ENCODE mode, and the last one 'Merge' is set to DECODE.

MSED handles the gain internally so you don't have to worry about the gain changes at conversion time.

Yes I should have mentioned the WarnSilentBuses variable but I leave mine on set to warn so as I'm reminded that I'm using Silent buses deliberately or that I've created one without paying attention.
2012/06/12 19:07:47
alexoosthoek
Jonbouy


alexoosthoek


Hope you learn from it

Anyway this thingy does a lot of good to my room-recordings!

Yep the excercise here really is to be able to split channel routings to access them indepenently before recombining.  There are many uses for doing it that don't involve mid-side also.

@Alegria

Make sure the first instance of MSED 'Split' is set to ENCODE mode, and the last one 'Merge' is set to DECODE.

MSED handles the gain internally so you don't have to worry about the gain changes at conversion time.

Yes I should have mentioned the WarnSilentBuses variable but I leave mine on set to warn so as I'm reminded that I'm using Silent buses deliberately or that I've created one without paying attention.


So now I'm curious, I used it to enhance the bass in the Mid and cut the lows in the Side. What other uses would you recommend?
2012/06/12 19:37:53
bitflipper
I did an experiment with MSED on a reverb bus and muting/lowering the Mid. My theory was that if reverbs spread reflections across the panorama, I could filter out all but those at the outer edges, taking the reverb out of the center. I imagined that it would clarify the vocal while adding a spacious effect.

Sounds good in theory. In practice, it just made the reverb sound thin. Might be worth further experimentation, though, altering the M/S balance on sub-busses for effect. If, for example, you wanted to remove all the kick drum from a stereo drum mix in order to replace it with a sampled kick.
2012/06/12 19:48:43
Alegria
"Jonbouy"
Make sure the first instance of MSED 'Split' is set to ENCODE mode, and the last one 'Merge' is set to DECODE.

Yup, they are! 
2012/06/13 00:01:03
Jonbouy
bitflipper


I did an experiment with MSED on a reverb bus and muting/lowering the Mid. My theory was that if reverbs spread reflections across the panorama, I could filter out all but those at the outer edges, taking the reverb out of the center. I imagined that it would clarify the vocal while adding a spacious effect.

Sounds good in theory. In practice, it just made the reverb sound thin. Might be worth further experimentation, though, altering the M/S balance on sub-busses for effect. If, for example, you wanted to remove all the kick drum from a stereo drum mix in order to replace it with a sampled kick.


Trouble is I've found with increasing the ratio of 'Side' to 'Mid' (turning the mid down or increasing the side) is that the width will increase but at the expense of any depth, as you found.

It tends to work much better reducing the 'Side' component especially if you've got too much ambience from the room and want to bring more focus to the real action.  Adding to the side is a surefire way of wrecking mono compatibilty with very little effort.

Slight compression deviations between 'Mid' and 'Side' are worth playing with too as are eq say some LMF removal and some added air to the 'Side' and some more weight on the bottom of the 'Mid' portion for example.  Keep an eye on any added gain though so as not to disrupt the balance between the two elements.

If you are using any kind of spatial fx chorus, verbs etc. using the bus split method it's worth panning the mid hard left and the side hard right on the buses so as not to get any cross-talk between the two elements.

Those are just some guidlines I've found out by playing around but there are no limits to having fun.  And you shouldn't limit yourself to mixes either as you can get really creative with individual stereo instruments/sounds.

As a technique it's not a magic bullet by any means but it's another useful option for the toolbox, and the advantage of the split bus technique is that you get exactly the same control over your elements as you would if you'd used the Mid/Side micing technique and you can use all your favourite plugs instead of investing in a bunch of specialist M/S ones.
2012/06/13 19:12:34
alexoosthoek
Bump :)
2012/06/13 19:58:13
ohgrant
 Great stuff guys, thanks for sharing.
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