MIDI Cymbal muting question

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jhughs
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2007/12/27 23:24:54 (permalink)

MIDI Cymbal muting question

Do any of you know if there is a way to mute cymbal crashes with MIDI controls?
I noticed that with the hi-hat I can hit the "open hi-hat" and then stop it by issuing a "hi-hat pedal" event.
But is there a way to do something similar with, for example, the crash cymbal; like when a drummer hits the cymbal and then grabs it with their hand?
Thanks in advance.
#1

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    Beagle
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    RE: MIDI Cymbal muting question 2007/12/28 07:36:34 (permalink)
    to do a mute like you're describing, the only thing I can think of would be to separate the cymbal hits onto an output of their own using the drum map or by physically moving them to their own track, then using a volume envelope on the audio output track to cut off the end of the note.

    if you simply edit the note length, that won't cut off the trailing sound, so to mute it you'd have to mute the audio instead.

    someone else may have a better solution, but that's all I can think of.

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    #2
    Crofty
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    RE: MIDI Cymbal muting question 2007/12/28 16:01:47 (permalink)
    The reason the high hat stops sounding from wide open to closed is that in the drum software/programming, there's an option to group items together - the open hat and pedal are grouped so when you hit the open hat and then hit the pedal (or closed hat) the open hat stops immediately. You could try adding a cymbal to the hats group. Hit the cymbal then hit the pedal/closed hat - the effect is not unlike a cymbal choke.

    #3
    karlsarch
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    RE: MIDI Cymbal muting question 2007/12/30 14:50:38 (permalink)
    Crofty has it right - it can be managed via programming, but there seems to be a few "gotchas" that have prevented me from managing it -- until today! I created a modified version of the session drummer sfz file for cymbal crashes that allows the splash cymbal to choke the crash cymbals. Here's the file contents:
    //----------
    // -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    //
    // SL Tight Kit Sample Set - Dry -- modified by Karl Archuleta to simulate chokes
    //
    // -----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    // Cymbals

    // Crash Cymbal 1
    <group> key=49 loop_mode=one_shot

    <region> lovel=0 hivel=50 group=49 off_by=55 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Medium Crash 16 inch 01.wav
    <region> lovel=51 hivel=75 group=49 off_by=55 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Medium Crash 16 inch 02.wav
    <region> lovel=76 hivel=95 group=49 off_by=55 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Medium Crash 16 inch 03.wav
    <region> lovel=96 hivel=115 group=49 off_by=55 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Medium Crash 16 inch 04.wav
    <region> lovel=116 hivel=127 group=49 off_by=55 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Medium Crash 16 inch 05.wav


    // Splash Cymbal
    <group> key=55 loop_mode=one_shot

    <region> group=55 lovel=0 hivel=63 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Wuhan 10 inch Splash 01.wav
    <region> group=55 lovel=64 hivel=94 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Wuhan 10 inch Splash 02.wav
    <region> group=55 lovel=95 hivel=127 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Wuhan 10 inch Splash 03.wav


    // Crash Cymbal 2
    <group> key=57 loop_mode=one_shot

    <region> lovel=0 hivel=50 group=57 off_by=55 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Medium Crash 17 inch 01.wav
    <region> lovel=51 hivel=75 group=57 off_by=55 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Medium Crash 17 inch 02.wav
    <region> lovel=76 hivel=95 group=57 off_by=55 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Medium Crash 17 inch 03.wav
    <region> lovel=96 hivel=115 group=57 off_by=55 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Medium Crash 17 inch 04.wav
    <region> lovel=116 hivel=127 group=57 off_by=55 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Medium Crash 17 inch 05.wav

    // Chinese Cymbal
    <group> key=52 loop_mode=one_shot

    <region> lovel=0 hivel=63 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Wuhan 12 inch China 01.wav
    <region> lovel=64 hivel=94 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Wuhan 12 inch China 02.wav
    <region> lovel=95 hivel=127 sample=SL Tight Kit Dry Crashes\Wuhan 12 inch China 03.wav

    //----------

    Instructions:
    1) Save this to a .sfz file and load it into Session Drummer 2 for your crashes
    2) For a choked crash, after the midi crash hit, insert a splash with velocity 1
    3) Voila! Choked crash!

    If you are not using session drummer 2, you may be able to do similar editing. The trick was to establish groups, then a different key had to be used to trigger the loop off, i.e. the splash instead of the crash.
    #4
    Zane
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    RE: MIDI Cymbal muting question 2007/12/30 18:39:12 (permalink)
    Thanks, Karl! I'd been wondering about .sfz files and their format. This will help me start creating my own custom groups.

    I've tried to answer some of the more common SHS questions:

    http://zanesmusic.blogspot.com/
    #5
    jhughs
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    RE: MIDI Cymbal muting question 2008/01/19 10:30:42 (permalink)
    thanks guys.
    i'd gotten pulled away from music & this site for a while and just noticed the great advice.
    i am using a different drum rig (M-Audio) but I'll hunt down the .sfz file and give it a shot (or just use Session Drummer for this project).
    #6
    evand67
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    RE: MIDI Cymbal muting question 2008/01/20 05:15:32 (permalink)
    kewl, guys!!
    One thing tho...to get a really realistic sounding choke,..the sound doesn't just stop...it has a little muted end to it...maybe session drummer 3 will add an option like that...instead of the way the high hat cuts the hat and adds the pedal, it could cut the cymbal and add the hand mute sound...
    I know...I'm picky...
    #7
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