Whistlekiller
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MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
This is really odd.......I'll see if I can explain it properly. Subsequent to a Windows 10 update, all sorts of things went tits up on my Sonar X3 Producer so I thought, "why not upgrade to Sonar Platinum" as I was planning to do that later this year anyway, mainly for the multi-mix function. Anyway, having done the upgrade I had a few immediate issues which were all swiftly resolved by a support call to Cakewalk - cheers guys, you were brilliant, but I now find that Soft Synths and MIDI controlled external devices (Roland JV-1010) are randomly dropping half a tone during recording or playing. This occurs with two controllers - an Alesisi Q49 keyboard and a Roland GR-55 Guitar Synth (although not on the GR-55 audio obviously) as well as during playback of soft synth and MIDI controlled tracks. I assume from this that, as the problem is global, it rules out the MIDI controllers as cause and because it also occurs during playback of soft synth and MIDI controlled tracks that it must be something to do with the relationship between SONAR Platinum and Windows 10 (64-bit) Version 1607 build 14393.321. Anybody had the same problem and if so got any ideas how to fix it?
X11 i7 3770-3.4Ghz, 32Gb RAM, Win 10 Pro 64 Bit, Sonar Platinum, V-Studio 100, V-Contol 1.9 iPad, Omnisphere Power Synth, Alesis V61 Keyboard, Novation Launch Control, Roland JV1010 Synth, Roland GR55 Guitar Synth, Line 6 Pod with floorboard, Shure PG42 Mic, 4 guitars, 5 string bass, upright bass, ukelele, mandolin, Cambridge SoundWorks THX Speakers, M-Audio Speakers
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Viamichael
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Re: MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
2016/10/12 19:57:06
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I'm not much help here, but . . . I have never have any issue with my old Alexis QS6 and I don't have your guitar synth, but have forever used a Roland GR-30 and have found the Bend Range and/or Chromatic give me your type of problem.
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slartabartfast
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Re: MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
2016/10/12 22:30:33
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"Dropping half a tone?" Does that mean that the pitch of a note (or a portion of the note) is lowered by a half tone? If so does the next note occur on the correct pitch or do subsequent notes stay low until the next event? Does the MIDI (the actual note number as opposed to the audible pitch produced by your unspecified synthesizer) show up lower? Does it mean that half of the duration of a note is not played? Or that some notes are not played? Does it mean that... never mind. I have no idea what you are talking about. Why not start over and describe in some detail what is actually happening?
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Whistlekiller
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Re: MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
2016/10/13 02:47:29
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OK, bearing in mind I'm in no way technical, I play a note on the keyboard or guitar synth and everything is fine for a period of time. For example, I play an E, it registers on the piano roll as an E but after a while the audible note drops to an Eflat (along with all subsequent notes being half a tone lower audibly) while remaining true on the piano roll. No notes are dropping out and envelope is not affected. The period of time until things go awry can vary from as little as a couple of seconds to several minutes. Soft Synth and MIDI playback of my external JV1010 are also affected. If I kill the MIDI and reset the Audio engine it fixes the problem but only temporarily. All this happens without any use of tone or modulation wheels on the Q49 or by using the expression pedal on the GR-55. SPLAT is the latest version with all current updates. That's about as much detail as I can give. I can see no further indications as to why this is happening.
X11 i7 3770-3.4Ghz, 32Gb RAM, Win 10 Pro 64 Bit, Sonar Platinum, V-Studio 100, V-Contol 1.9 iPad, Omnisphere Power Synth, Alesis V61 Keyboard, Novation Launch Control, Roland JV1010 Synth, Roland GR55 Guitar Synth, Line 6 Pod with floorboard, Shure PG42 Mic, 4 guitars, 5 string bass, upright bass, ukelele, mandolin, Cambridge SoundWorks THX Speakers, M-Audio Speakers
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slartabartfast
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Re: MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
2016/10/13 03:23:00
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So if the MIDI note number is not changing, and the perceived pitch is changing by a half tone lower, the most likely cause is that you are experiencing a change in the sampling rate from 48 kHz to 44.1 kHz. If so you should also have a slightly slower playing of the recording, but that may be harder to perceive. The fact that it changes unexpectedly suggests that another application on your computer is taking control of the sampling rate of your interface so that the interface is using a different sampling rate than Sonar.
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VariousArtist
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Re: MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
2016/10/13 13:58:45
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Check the event list and see if you have a pitch bend controller event in there. That could explain things
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robert_e_bone
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Re: MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
2016/10/13 15:03:52
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☄ Helpfulby Whistlekiller 2016/10/18 12:52:33
For whatever the worth, I recently began hearing slightly out of tune sounds if I played one plugin on my upper controller and others on my lower controller. After much investigation, it turns out that my faithful Axiom Pro 61 controller has started sending out pitch bend and mod wheel midi messages by the HUNDREDS, and this seems to occur over time with lots of different company's controllers - not just Axiom. For ME, I have disabled both CC's so that when I play on that controller the sounds are now playing correctly - and the LONG term fix is to get one of the circuit boards replaced for that controller. I don't know if anything from this post would apply to your situation - just thought I would share it as something else you could look at to see if it is involved. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Anderton
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Re: MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
2016/10/13 18:26:58
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Whistlekiller OK, bearing in mind I'm in no way technical, I play a note on the keyboard or guitar synth and everything is fine for a period of time. For example, I play an E, it registers on the piano roll as an E but after a while the audible note drops to an Eflat (along with all subsequent notes being half a tone lower audibly) while remaining true on the piano roll. I'm assuming you're not stopping or starting, correct? In other words, the pitch drops during a period of continuous playback? If I kill the MIDI and reset the Audio engine it fixes the problem but only temporarily. This implies that SONAR receives something not in the file itself that causes the change. When you reset, SONAR reverts to whatever value is in the file. Try this: Disconnect all MIDI controllers, whether via 5-pin DIN or USB. Play the song through from start to finish several times, then report back whether the problem persists or not.
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Cactus Music
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Re: MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
2016/10/13 18:51:59
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When I read the title first thing comes to mind is a controller sending a pitch bend. This can happen as Bob has said even if you don't think you've moved it. They can go wonky. Craig's advice on disconnecting all controlers is your best bet. And if that doesn't stop it then yes, look in your event list. I doubt if it is a sample rate issue that's just not possible mid song without things crashing to a halt, and Sonar will warn you anyways when that happens.
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Whistlekiller
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Re: MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
2016/10/15 12:56:52
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Thank you for all your replies. It would appear to have nothing to do with other programs as there are none on here apart from Windows and Sonar. No pitch bends or other MIDI info apart from the note are being introduced (see previous reply). There is no slowing down of the track - I've checked this with an external stopwatch. Both controllers have been disconnected and reconnected after a shutdown. It makes no difference. Anderton.......it happens during recording and playback. Problem still persists. Cactus: I agree it's not a sampling thing as it's too random. It'd either be right or wrong all the time if sampling were at fault. Nothing untoward in the Event List!
X11 i7 3770-3.4Ghz, 32Gb RAM, Win 10 Pro 64 Bit, Sonar Platinum, V-Studio 100, V-Contol 1.9 iPad, Omnisphere Power Synth, Alesis V61 Keyboard, Novation Launch Control, Roland JV1010 Synth, Roland GR55 Guitar Synth, Line 6 Pod with floorboard, Shure PG42 Mic, 4 guitars, 5 string bass, upright bass, ukelele, mandolin, Cambridge SoundWorks THX Speakers, M-Audio Speakers
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Anderton
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Re: MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
2016/10/15 13:26:30
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I noticed you have a V-Studio 100. IIRC the 8.1 drivers don't work with Windows 10; you have to modify the .INF file. Try to borrow an ASIO interface. Set a System Restore point, install the interface's drivers, and use that for a while to see if it fixes the problem. It's sounding more and more like something hardware-related; software doesn't just decide to change pitch, and given that this particular problem has not been reported by others, it's likely system-specific.
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Base 57
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Re: MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
2016/10/15 13:30:42
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Do you have another interface or soundcard you can try? Your V-S could be crapp!ng out. FWIW I had a similar problem that turned out to be my Novation keyboard sending erroneous pitch bend messages. I would have sworn in court that I had eliminated it as the problem during troubleshooting. Took me weeks to come back around to it, but when I disconnected it and left out again the problem was gone. So... Make sure that the input on midi tracks that are complete is set to an unused port / channel (not none). -edited for whatever that was-
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Whistlekiller
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Re: MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
2016/10/18 13:00:01
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Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been fishing! I'll give all your ideas a go and see if they fix things. Regarding the Win10 drivers. I've no idea which ones are being used as the VS-100 updates itself according to Cakewalk/Roland but it's interesting to note that it worked fine with Win 10 for several months until the most recent O/S updates. It's a bummer because everything else is working just right and Platinum seems like a smashing product, particularly the Mix Recall.
X11 i7 3770-3.4Ghz, 32Gb RAM, Win 10 Pro 64 Bit, Sonar Platinum, V-Studio 100, V-Contol 1.9 iPad, Omnisphere Power Synth, Alesis V61 Keyboard, Novation Launch Control, Roland JV1010 Synth, Roland GR55 Guitar Synth, Line 6 Pod with floorboard, Shure PG42 Mic, 4 guitars, 5 string bass, upright bass, ukelele, mandolin, Cambridge SoundWorks THX Speakers, M-Audio Speakers
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robert_e_bone
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Re: MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
2016/10/18 13:18:12
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☄ Helpfulby Whistlekiller 2016/10/19 12:37:21
Just a little more info for anyone who hasn't yet ruled out controller-generated errant pitch bend messages: I could see midi activity on the track meter for any midi track set to receive data from the suspect controller, and sure enough both in Midi OX and when I armed one of the midi tracks pointing to that controller and just recorded with no playing of any notes - ZILLIONS of pitch bend messages were recorded. So, after farting around with filtering and such for a little while, I just went to the controller and temporarily turned pitch bend OFF, and the issues immediately went away. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Whistlekiller
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Re: MIDI Dropping Half A Tone randomly
2016/10/20 17:01:16
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Without wishing to tempt fate, I've disconnected the Alesis Q49 controller and things seem to have stabilized without it's contribution. It must be an issue between it and the latest Win10 updates. Perhaps Alesis haven't caught up yet (or don't plan to for this model). At least it's a relatively inexpensive item to replace if push comes to shove!
X11 i7 3770-3.4Ghz, 32Gb RAM, Win 10 Pro 64 Bit, Sonar Platinum, V-Studio 100, V-Contol 1.9 iPad, Omnisphere Power Synth, Alesis V61 Keyboard, Novation Launch Control, Roland JV1010 Synth, Roland GR55 Guitar Synth, Line 6 Pod with floorboard, Shure PG42 Mic, 4 guitars, 5 string bass, upright bass, ukelele, mandolin, Cambridge SoundWorks THX Speakers, M-Audio Speakers
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