Mystic38
Max Output Level: -59 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1622
- Joined: 2010/08/30 17:40:34
- Location: Mystic, CT
- Status: offline
MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
am in the middle of recording the piano (call it the paino) part of Adele's "someone like you", and its take 15 and counting!
MIDI.. gotta love it.
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
|
Jonbouy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 22562
- Joined: 2008/04/14 13:47:39
- Location: England's Sunshine South Coast
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 06:22:04
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Mystic38 2013/10/08 07:15:40
Mystic38
am in the middle of recording the piano (call it the paino) part of Adele's "someone like you", and its take 15 and counting!
MIDI.. gotta love it.
Aye, it's wonderful stuff! Sometimes I'll play a whole part on one note just to get the timing and dynamics right then just slide to the correct notes via scale snap to get a melody down. Don't tell anyone though... 
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 07:05:28
(permalink)
I thought I was the only one who did that JB
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 07:17:10
(permalink)
I want better MIDI tempo mapping tools. It seems like the final frontier for DAW.
Some days I use my all powerful DAW like it's a time code tape deck because mapping the tempo to free play reveals the many ways you can end up with "tempo out of bounds" dialogs.
Other days I use my all powerful DAW like it is a doctor rhythm drum machine circa 1983.
I'd really enjoy getting to easily place a MBT grid on a free play performance with out all the hassles I associate with the attempts I have made for the past 20 years. Getting to do that without having to be a ninja that can outsmart the DAW would really be a treat.
That way I could feel like I am not missing out on the potential of DAW while I am being hospitable to people who don't play their music on a grid.
best regards,
mike
|
Jonbouy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 22562
- Joined: 2008/04/14 13:47:39
- Location: England's Sunshine South Coast
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 07:49:46
(permalink)
mike_mccue
I want better MIDI tempo mapping tools. It seems like the final frontier for DAW.
Some days I use my all powerful DAW like it's a time code tape deck because mapping the tempo to free play reveals the many ways you can end up with "tempo out of bounds" dialogs.
Other days I use my all powerful DAW like it is a doctor rhythm drum machine circa 1983.
I'd really enjoy getting to easily place a MBT grid on a free play performance with out all the hassles I associate with the attempts I have made for the past 20 years. Getting to do that without having to be a ninja that can outsmart the DAW would really be a treat.
That way I could feel like I am not missing out on the potential of DAW while I am being hospitable to people who don't play their music on a grid.
best regards,
mike
Midi will always land exactly where you put it, I'm not sure if I get what you problem here is at all. Much of my final editing I don't do in Sonar though and I've got used to being able to stretch or shrink midi clips independently of the DAW's tempo and even being able to automate the project tempo and have the audio AND midi stay in sync with each other whilst doing so. I'm sure this can all be done in Sonar too.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 08:16:54
(permalink)
I often times try to lay a tempo map over a free play performance. A guitar or a piano or a drum set for example.
I don't want to change the tempo of the original performance, I want to set the grid on top of the performance so that I may use MIDI freely to add other sounds using all the conveniences of MIDI on a grid.
In my experience the existing tools like "Set Measure Beat to Now" etc. act capriciously and often times what seems like a normal expectation results in warning dialogs that suggest you have just buggared up your tempo map.
I think it will be great when someone finally digs in to those functions and makes them as brainless and painless and they have a potential to be.
I try to start at the beginning and work along along the timeline as that seems to get the best results but often times it seems like it would be helpful to start at the last beat and then work on the starts of verses and choruse and then work your way in to the details... but that is a guaranteed way to end up with a warning dialog.
It seems like some behind the scenes investigation regarding why the calculations are "out of bounds" would be easy and has probably already been done years ago. It seems like implementing solutions for the frequent "out of bounds" warnings have never been implemented.
When I speak with some of my full time studio friends about this they tell me that they just use markers and ignore the MBT grid. Then they mention that they abandoned thinking in terms of MIDI even if the source instruments are MIDI... they just capture performances as if all instruments are, well, instruments. I ask them about this in hope of learning a better way to do it and they just shrug it off as a non issue because by and large they work with players that aren't asking for the ability to edit on a grid.
The players I work with could benefit from an ability, on my part, to quickly add extra midi based parts on a grid... because they don't have access to extra instrumentalists and their performance fees. I don't have the chops to play a Kontakt horn section free play on a keyboard but I can write up a part that will work. That's when having a grid sitting on top of a free play track could be a huge benefit and really put some power in to the DAW. It would let me help people.
I continue to work on laying grids out using the tools as they exist but it is frustrating, slow, painful, and rarely works as I'd hope.
I am still eager to integrate and utilize the best of grid based soft synth and sampler technology with free play acoustic music but it seems like a constant struggle and it seems as if the tools to make it happen have simply never had the extra dev time to make it as easy as it seems like it should be.
I get the impression that the latest Cubase version has some enhanced tools for this. I also recall that in the past that our forum user dmbaer mentioned he was developing a free standing tool for this purpose.
I'd sure like it to become super easy to snap a grid onto a free played performance so I could enjoy the best of both worlds and be able to consider it all just one happy way to manage projects.
It would make a DAW seem up to date.
I hope some of that makes sense.
all the best,
mike
|
Moshkiae
Max Output Level: -14 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6111
- Joined: 2009/04/27 10:26:25
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 08:29:34
(permalink)
Hi,
Love that Mike.
Nice to hear some folks actually say that they are more interested in the instruments than they are in the midi, or in the time, or whatever. And I keep thinking that is what music has been all about ... I kinda would like to see The Firebird Suite on a Daw ... seems like it would be a joke and all these DAW's would probably get a D- for a grade.
Too much of a DAW is set for rock'n'roll only in my book, so to speak, and they are not listening to the music itself when they are working it. It's not the beat that makes it big and famous ... it's the "personna" behind it!
That's how I look at it.
Wasn't midi, supposed to simply be a communication link and not necessarily a part of the "instrumentation?"
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
|
spacey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8769
- Joined: 2004/05/03 18:53:44
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 08:49:12
(permalink)
If the polyphonic pickup for guitars and the midi processing wasn't so sloppy
and somebody besides Drums On Demand would offer great selections of
.wav drum parts I could easily erase midi editing issues in my world.
Editing .wav files can be tricky but I'd rather deal with them than midi.
I was excited about midi guitar ( a long time ago) but now it's just crap I have
to deal with, or do without due to limitations of controlling the signal with a guitar.
My point of view is strickly as a (midi) guitarist. I do have a midi keyboard and have used it- just
didn't enjoy it although I did have a different opinion of midi issues when using it- mainly because
I try to use midi to capture a performance NOT piece together one.
And now the tools seem to be harder to use since I don't use them enough to remember
how to do every little thing.
|
Mystic38
Max Output Level: -59 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1622
- Joined: 2010/08/30 17:40:34
- Location: Mystic, CT
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 09:04:56
(permalink)
Well.. total was 20 takes...
At least I can get the damn piano off the desk now.. I gets grumpy when I canna grab my coffee quick
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
|
Moshkiae
Max Output Level: -14 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6111
- Joined: 2009/04/27 10:26:25
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 09:50:33
(permalink)
spacey
If the polyphonic pickup for guitars and the midi processing wasn't so sloppy
and somebody besides Drums On Demand would offer great selections of
.wav drum parts I could easily erase midi editing issues in my world.
Editing .wav files can be tricky but I'd rather deal with them than midi.
I was excited about midi guitar ( a long time ago) but now it's just crap I have
to deal with, or do without due to limitations of controlling the signal with a guitar.
...
And now the tools seem to be harder to use since I don't use them enough to remember
how to do every little thing.
...
This is my naive thought on this ... too many of these programs were put together by geeks that want to do music. This was not designed by musicians to help them with their music, since musicians are considered to be good enough to do that! But the software has gotten so much better, that some of these geeks think they can do a guitar better than you can play it ... and you know that's what some of these tools are trying to do ... give you something you can not get, or find! Will midi get better? I think it will go away as not needed soon enough imbedded in other works and software. It's already wasted, when you go to the music store in your local town ask for someone that knows midi and keyboards and no one knows anything! ... and that is a sure sign, that it will have to die ... no one to nurture it or bother with it!
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
|
Mystic38
Max Output Level: -59 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1622
- Joined: 2010/08/30 17:40:34
- Location: Mystic, CT
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 11:12:52
(permalink)
nah..i disagree..
midi isn't going anywhere... if you took midi away overnight the entire music industry would crash. think about it.. no soft synths, no arpeggiators, .. that's no modern music at all... even if you think that all modern music is loops...how do you think they are created?.. softsynths and samplers driven by midi
Without midi its back to Tascam and a guitar...
wait.. back to Tascam and a guitar?.. oops.. forward to Tascam professional software and a guitar?..
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 11:29:01
(permalink)
Every year NAMM reports that sales of instruments that don't rely on MIDI far out paces sales of instruments that do.
Don't get me wrong... I've already explained that I like MIDI and want to use it more than I do... but if MIDI disappeared tomorrow there would still be lots and lots of people making music on all that other stuff.
all the best,
mike
|
craigb
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 41704
- Joined: 2009/01/28 23:13:04
- Location: The Pacific Northwestshire
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 11:35:56
(permalink)
I've been known to use my V-Drums to enter MIDI data just to make sure I get the irregular tempo I'm looking for. LOL.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
|
dmbaer
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2585
- Joined: 2008/08/04 20:10:22
- Location: Concord CA
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 16:22:42
(permalink)
mike_mccue
I get the impression that the latest Cubase version has some enhanced tools for this. I also recall that in the past that our forum user dmbaer mentioned he was developing a free standing tool for this purpose.
I'm just learning Cubase and am nowhere close to expert level, but I don't believe Cubase has a huge lead on SONAR. The tempo editor (tempo view) is a bit more user friendly and more consistent with other Cubase editors, and Cubase has a very nice feature where you can disable the tempo map and play back at whatever fixed tempo you wish (great for practice or for adding parts too difficult to play in real time). But it does not have anything (that I've discovered anyway) that assists in mapping a conductor click track to a tempo map that's more advanced than anything in SONAR, which is Fit to Improv. The software I wrote can be read about and obtained here: http://soundbyte.arsov.net/Wordpress/2013/05/08/tempo-thelastdawfrontier/ We're in the process of moving to a better host for the magazine, so the link may change in a few days. I'll try to remember to update it when that happens.
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 16:59:40
(permalink)
My first reaction to your article:
"what a great title"
when I used a similar phrase in post #4 I was feeling it all by myself.
:-)
|
Jonbouy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 22562
- Joined: 2008/04/14 13:47:39
- Location: England's Sunshine South Coast
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 18:23:52
(permalink)
mike_mccue
My first reaction to your article:
"what a great title"
when I used a similar phrase in post #4 I was feeling it all by myself.
:-)
I think you were getting that impression because I work that part outside of Sonar in order to gain more flexibility between the 3 different and distinctly seperate time based aspects of audio, midi and the project tempo, so I don't get the same problem, but not because I don't understand what you are trying to achieve but because I'm no longer familiar with the problems you seem to be having. Dmbaer's solution is an excellent one will which will give you what you are after as do the solutions I'm using already within Sonar. It's not that you are on your own as much as some of us have developed methodologies to deal with this aspect already that still seems to be limiting you. You are not being hospitable to people that want to play on a grid as you put it, you are being insulting to those that are able to make that grid flexible enough for it not to be a limiting factor. If you can sync audio to video then there are certainly no bars to syncing midi to audio these days however sloppy the timing of either or even both.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2013/10/08 18:43:22
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
|
Jonbouy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 22562
- Joined: 2008/04/14 13:47:39
- Location: England's Sunshine South Coast
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 18:42:26
(permalink)
dmbaer
mike_mccue
I get the impression that the latest Cubase version has some enhanced tools for this. I also recall that in the past that our forum user dmbaer mentioned he was developing a free standing tool for this purpose.
I'm just learning Cubase and am nowhere close to expert level, but I don't believe Cubase has a huge lead on SONAR. The tempo editor (tempo view) is a bit more user friendly and more consistent with other Cubase editors, and Cubase has a very nice feature where you can disable the tempo map and play back at whatever fixed tempo you wish (great for practice or for adding parts too difficult to play in real time). But it does not have anything (that I've discovered anyway) that assists in mapping a conductor click track to a tempo map that's more advanced than anything in SONAR, which is Fit to Improv.
The software I wrote can be read about and obtained here:
http://soundbyte.arsov.net/Wordpress/2013/05/08/tempo-thelastdawfrontier/
We're in the process of moving to a better host for the magazine, so the link may change in a few days. I'll try to remember to update it when that happens.
Thanks for that. It's a beautifully elegant solution that will work anywhere.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 19:06:38
(permalink)
Jonbouy
mike_mccue
My first reaction to your article:
"what a great title"
when I used a similar phrase in post #4 I was feeling it all by myself.
:-)
I think you were getting that impression because I work that part outside of Sonar in order to gain more flexibility between the 3 different and distinctly seperate time based aspects of audio, midi and the project tempo, so I don't get the same problem, but not because I don't understand what you are trying to achieve but because I'm no longer familiar with the problems you seem to be having.
Dmbaer's solution is an excellent one will which will give you what you are after as do the solutions I'm using already within Sonar. It's not that you are on your own as much as some of us have developed methodologies to deal with this aspect already that still seems to be limiting you.
You are not being hospitable to people that want to play on a grid as you put it, you are being insulting to those that are able to make that grid flexible enough for it not to be a limiting factor. If you can sync audio to video then there are certainly no bars to syncing midi to audio these days however sloppy the timing of either or even both.
OK, I read this about 5 times and I decided to give up trying to understand why you would take offense and fire away with that sort of response. For one thing you seem to assume that my thoughts include some sort of impression of you... which they don't. For another thing I can't understand much of what you are trying to convey after that until you get to the part where you accuse me of being insulting to someone who evidently seems to feel he is advanced enough to warrant being insulted by those who don't know they are doing so. :-( To be clear the post you have quoted was an expression of delight that someone such as David seems to hope for the same sort of built in tools as I hope for. That post is not a condemnation of anyone who has other methods of getting the same results but you have acted as if you have decided to imagine that it is. You scare me... because you have once again left me with a choice of turning the other cheek or providing you with an argument as you seem to desire. I'd sure like to have better tools built right in to the DAW and I'd really enjoy some ability to smooth out the tempo map so as to acknowledge that the "scratch" track can actually have examples of playing before or behind the beat. Fit to Improv works ok if you have the time sig worked out in advance until you start to try to smooth out the tempo mapping by going in a second time to work on the details. I look forward to trying out Davids new tool. best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2013/10/08 19:09:41
|
Jonbouy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 22562
- Joined: 2008/04/14 13:47:39
- Location: England's Sunshine South Coast
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 19:13:36
(permalink)
mike_mccue
I want better MIDI tempo mapping tools. It seems like the final frontier for DAW.
Some days I use my all powerful DAW like it's a time code tape deck because mapping the tempo to free play reveals the many ways you can end up with "tempo out of bounds" dialogs.
Other days I use my all powerful DAW like it is a doctor rhythm drum machine circa 1983.
I'd really enjoy getting to easily place a MBT grid on a free play performance with out all the hassles I associate with the attempts I have made for the past 20 years. Getting to do that without having to be a ninja that can outsmart the DAW would really be a treat.
That way I could feel like I am not missing out on the potential of DAW while I am being hospitable to people who don't play their music on a grid.
best regards,
mike
I apologize Mike I got the emboldened part completely the wrong way round. I took it as a sneer to those that quantize to a grid when in fact you are seeking to accommodate those that have difficulty in keeping strict mechanical time. I was completely wrong having read it back. I hope I can correct my mistake as quickly as a midi clip... 
post edited by Jonbouy - 2013/10/08 19:17:41
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
|
Jeff Evans
Max Output Level: -24 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5139
- Joined: 2009/04/13 18:20:16
- Location: Ballarat, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 19:20:16
(permalink)
I found this interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFIZc7IMzyA It is a panel discussion about Midi at the NAMM 2013 show and it is great to see those heavyweights up there such as Dave Smith and Tom Oberheim etc. Very interesting. It shows that even the original midi spec was incredibly well designed and still can function so well even today. I don't think there will ever be a revision of the Midi Spec but I don't think it is going away anytime soon. It certainly forms the basis even today of a big part of my setup and it just works so incredibly well. Modern instruments (such as Kurzweil PC3K) while adding USB ports and things are also still featuring Midi connections too. Mike I find your interest in tempo mapping also interesting and I am also interested in it too. I recorded some amazing world musicians playing live back in the mid 90's and I still have the sessions today. All without a click of course. And although the tempos sound very regular etc they are mapping all over the place for sure. I did add a lot of midi tracks to the music after tempo mapping everything very painfully using Cubase at the time. It just has a wonderful feel and groove and nothing like grid based grooves either. No comparison actually so I am keen to get into this more too. I find myself that when I play drums I can play very well to the click but when I lay down grooves without it they just seem to jump or groove in a way that does not happen on the grid. It is the reason why live music is so good. I want audio tracks to be analysed and generate tempo maps that would be the ideal for me. Just out of interest and it may be a rumour but Studio One may be doing something very serious in this area in their next upgrade. (possibly V3) If they do then they will lead the pack for sure. We will have to wait and see. And knowing them it will be done properly and it will work!
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 20:19:00
(permalink)
Thanks for that Jonbouy.
I was stumbling with the idea that almost all the music I have recorded of myself is all on a MIDI grid and I enjoy working to the grid. So it seemed unlikely to me I would sneer at myself as well as other who share that enjoyment. :-)
I really am just hoping to find it easier to help my guests who work without any awareness of a grid.
I'd certainly welcome any suggestions on your part.
For example; I have a pianist that comes over and plays and sings with flair. I do record his playing as MIDI. It would be awesome if I could find a time effective way to add value to his performance by orchestrating extra instruments. I do so with live play of drums and bass but I don't have the keyboard chops to exploit samplers and synths as efficiently as lots of other people.
I do use the various mapping tools that I know of and if you know of other ways I'd gladly try to learn them.
all the best,
mike
|
craigb
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 41704
- Joined: 2009/01/28 23:13:04
- Location: The Pacific Northwestshire
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/08 20:31:34
(permalink)
I don't know Jeff, I can see them eventually enhancing the specs to allow for more granularity. Maybe all the way to 1,024 resolutions instead of 128. My favorite use of MIDI is when they have fireworks choreographed using it.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
|
Jonbouy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 22562
- Joined: 2008/04/14 13:47:39
- Location: England's Sunshine South Coast
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/09 09:44:09
(permalink)
dmbaer
mike_mccue
I get the impression that the latest Cubase version has some enhanced tools for this. I also recall that in the past that our forum user dmbaer mentioned he was developing a free standing tool for this purpose.
I'm just learning Cubase and am nowhere close to expert level, but I don't believe Cubase has a huge lead on SONAR. The tempo editor (tempo view) is a bit more user friendly and more consistent with other Cubase editors, and Cubase has a very nice feature where you can disable the tempo map and play back at whatever fixed tempo you wish (great for practice or for adding parts too difficult to play in real time). But it does not have anything (that I've discovered anyway) that assists in mapping a conductor click track to a tempo map that's more advanced than anything in SONAR, which is Fit to Improv.
The software I wrote can be read about and obtained here:
http://soundbyte.arsov.net/Wordpress/2013/05/08/tempo-thelastdawfrontier/
We're in the process of moving to a better host for the magazine, so the link may change in a few days. I'll try to remember to update it when that happens.
This is an absolutely brilliant tool for getting midi to correspond to some kind of 'flexible grid'. I've found once the performance is under the conductors control it's really easy to either scale down the generated tempo map or even remove it altogether to make everything strict tempo before applying more subtle, less stuttery tempo transitions than those caused by my fat fingers when laying down the conductor track. This is like a 'tap tempo' function on steroids. Thanks David.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/09 09:52:15
(permalink)
Hi Jeff,
I am just finishing listening to the 1-1/2 hour YouTube link.
It was wonderful to hear that diverse collection of guys speak so thoughtfully about MIDI.
best regards,
mike
|
dmbaer
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2585
- Joined: 2008/08/04 20:10:22
- Location: Concord CA
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/09 13:39:15
(permalink)
Jonbouy
dmbaer
The software I wrote can be read about and obtained here:
http://soundbyte.arsov.net/Wordpress/2013/05/08/tempo-thelastdawfrontier/
This is an absolutely brilliant tool for getting midi to correspond to some kind of 'flexible grid'.
This is like a 'tap tempo' function on steroids.
Thanks David.
Thank you, JB, for the kind words. I wrote this software for two reasons. One, it was something I really needed for my own purposes. Two, I wanted to demonstrate how simple an idea this approach is and perhaps motivate some DAW developers to put a similar function directly in their products. So far, goal one has been achieved. :-) Seriously though, I can't for the life of me figure out why not a single DAW has a feature along these lines. It's relatively easy code-wise.
|
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31918
- Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/09 13:52:04
(permalink)
David,
I think you should tack on a free reverb, and maybe a sample pack if you want people to take your app seriously.
;-)
|
dmbaer
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2585
- Joined: 2008/08/04 20:10:22
- Location: Concord CA
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/09 14:00:49
(permalink)
mike_mccue
David,
I think you should tack on a free reverb, and maybe a sample pack if you want people to take your app seriously.
;-)
No, to get it taken seriously, I suspect I need to release Maestrolizer Mobile for iPhone. :-)
|
Jonbouy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 22562
- Joined: 2008/04/14 13:47:39
- Location: England's Sunshine South Coast
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/09 14:08:54
(permalink)
dmbaer
Jonbouy
dmbaer
The software I wrote can be read about and obtained here:
http://soundbyte.arsov.net/Wordpress/2013/05/08/tempo-thelastdawfrontier/
This is an absolutely brilliant tool for getting midi to correspond to some kind of 'flexible grid'.
This is like a 'tap tempo' function on steroids.
Thanks David.
Thank you, JB, for the kind words. I wrote this software for two reasons. One, it was something I really needed for my own purposes. Two, I wanted to demonstrate how simple an idea this approach is and perhaps motivate some DAW developers to put a similar function directly in their products. So far, goal one has been achieved. :-)
Seriously though, I can't for the life of me figure out why not a single DAW has a feature along these lines. It's relatively easy code-wise.
It's so much easier than trying to get a match for some free-form audio (or midi for that matter) via the tempo map. I've tried getting matches for some free played audio and midi and have been successful on both occasions on the first run-through just by counting to 4 compared to the painstaking hours spent trying to get a tempo map to conform it's a breeze provided I get my count right. I've used some things that offer a tap to tempo from the keyboard but because they are linked to the playback tempo and use the computer keyboard I've never had much success with them. This though is simple and works like a charm I can see myself using it often, and the plus side due to the fact it isn't built into a DAW it works with whatever DAW I happen to be using at the time.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
|
dmbaer
Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2585
- Joined: 2008/08/04 20:10:22
- Location: Concord CA
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/11 17:01:25
(permalink)
Jonbouy
I've used some things that offer a tap to tempo from the keyboard but because they are linked to the playback tempo and use the computer keyboard I've never had much success with them.
This though is simple and works like a charm I can see myself using it often, and the plus side due to the fact it isn't built into a DAW it works with whatever DAW I happen to be using at the time.
Until a couple of hours ago, I didn't think this capability existed in any DAW. This morning I was reading through some old issues of SoundOnSound, checking out the Cubase column. I came across one installment talking about tempo and a function called "Merge Tempo From Tapping". The "taps" in this case are MIDI note events, not mouse clicks, and according to the documentation you can select the duration: 1/2 notes, 1/4 notes, "etc.". What does "etc." mean? The documentation doesn't say if it allows eighth notes or tuples of any kind (there's not even a picture of the dialog box that comes up when invoking the function). In fact, this feature occupies only a meager half page in the manual. The main purpose seems to be to allow matching previously recorded audio to a tempo track, but presumably you could use it to "conduct" to a track you hear in your mind that you want to apply to quantized or step entered MIDI. The fact that so little attention is paid to this in the manual sort of hints at how little importance most DAW designers relegate to this function. There is no discussion, for example, of whether or not you can use this feature to define a tempo track for a limited range of measures in a piece or how to start the tempo mapping at other than the beginning of a piece. Nevertheless, this appears at first glance to be very much along the lines of the solution I arrived at ... a bit of experimentation is in order to see what's really there. But it does look close. I dearly wish that Cakewalk would take a close look and use Cubase as a guideline in determining how SONAR could (should!) be modernized tempo-wise.
|
Moshkiae
Max Output Level: -14 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6111
- Joined: 2009/04/27 10:26:25
- Status: offline
Re: MIDI : Erasing our mistakes for 30 years
2013/10/12 15:27:08
(permalink)
spacey
If the polyphonic pickup for guitars and the midi processing wasn't so sloppy
and somebody besides Drums On Demand would offer great selections of
.wav drum parts I could easily erase midi editing issues in my world.
Editing .wav files can be tricky but I'd rather deal with them than midi.
I was excited about midi guitar ( a long time ago) but now it's just crap I have
to deal with, or do without due to limitations of controlling the signal with a guitar.
...
You ought to send that comment/question to what's his name in 10CC that created the original "gizmo" way back when. I bet you he would have something to say about it. But I don't think that "midi" was created to have you do your music on it. Wasn't that supposed to be done in a DAW, not in Midi?
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
|