MIDI & Kontakt 5 Multi Volume Help?

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fwrend
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2017/04/13 16:53:16 (permalink)

MIDI & Kontakt 5 Multi Volume Help?

Hi friends, I've got a choral concert tomorrow evening (Good Friday) with a 13 piece orchestra.  My choice of strings in this community is slim to none so I have opted to invest in some great VSTi's and use my DAW.  The setup and rehearsals have gone great despite my concern on stability.
 
My Keyboard is a Peavey DPM C8, DAW is a Studio Cat (thanks Jim!) i7 with 16 gig of RAM running at 53%, interface is a Behringer XR18.  I am using SPlat with 3 instances of UVI Workstation and 1 instance of Kontakt set up like this:
 
Track 1:  Audio with UVI - True Keys German Piano
Track 2: MIDI Channel 1 feeding T1
Track 3: Audio with Kontakt 5 - Kirk Hunter Virtuoso Ensembles (4 string instruments: Strings Arco; Tremolo; Pizzicato; Short)
Track 4: MIDI Channels 2, 5, 6, & 7 feeding T3
Track 5: Audio with UVI - Virharmonic Solo Violin
Track 6: MIDI Channel 3 feeding T5
Track 7: Audio with UVI - Virharmonic Solo Cello
Track 8: MIDI Channel 4 feeding T7
 
I have 11 presets on the keyboard setup so the player can increment with one push of a button each time.  For most presets, the keyboard has split zones so he can play e.g. Tremolo Strings with left hand and Solo Violin with the right.
 
PROBLEM: My question concerns the way Kontakt reacts and works with this type of programming.  I had a brief time during setup that the volume and or expression levels were changing on me when switching between presets on the keyboard.  I've got it working smoothly by disabling some of the wheel, button, and slider assignments - mostly making sure they weren't set to 07 Volume or Expression.
 
I don't work this way a lot so I haven't RTFM  but, I would like to mix, set and leave the volume in each of the instruments in the Kontakt Rack without them resetting to normal or 0 when I select a preset on the C8.  I've tried MIDI learn but only find that 07 is the Main Volume setting not per instrument.  Is the only work around to use an instance of Kontakt for each instrument and use the SPlat console to set volumes?  The UVI works fine with separate instances but how does Kontakt handle that?
 
I'm good with the way it is now but would like the option to fine tune the mix a bit.
 
Suggestions?  Would you have set it up differently?
 
 

Wren 

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    dmbaer
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    Re: MIDI & Kontakt 5 Multi Volume Help? 2017/04/13 20:04:51 (permalink)
    I don't fully understand your setup (like what do you mean by "tracks" if you're not in a DAW).
     
    But to answer your final question: you will probably be fine with several instances of Kontakt, especially if you are just using one of them at a time serially.  A single instance running a multi preset will be more efficient but it's not a situation where three Kontakt instances take three times as many resources as one with a three-part multi.  You will only have one copy of the executable code in memory either way, and if you have memory constraints, a multi is not going to use less memory for memory-resident sample data that separate instances needing the same sample data memory-resident.
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    fwrend
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    Re: MIDI & Kontakt 5 Multi Volume Help? 2017/04/18 18:22:53 (permalink)
    Thanks David!  Sorry, for the delay.  Not sure what I was thinking posting a question on the day of and before the performance!  Everything went great and the DAW did perfect - no issues whatsoever.
     
    1. Yes, I was in the DAW running SPlat as I stated in the OP.  I was still piecing together the instruments so I didn't have a lot of time to trial and error different setups.
    2. However, when I tried to run 4 instances of Kontakt - 1ea for Strings, Short, Pizz., & Tremolo, I couldn't get them each to play even though they were set to different MIDI channels just as I did successfully using one instance with a multi preset.  The MIDI meters were indicating the play but the instrument was not sounding.
     
    The problem I was having was assigning different keyboard controls to the volume of each instrument so that I could control them separately - it would only control the first instrument's volume.  BTW, I had no problem running 3 instances of UVI on different channels all of which played fine.
     
    I don't have my DAW set back up at home yet but thought I'd at acknowledge your reply.  Thank you!!
     
    More practice to come.

    Wren 

    Studio Cat DAW i7-4790K 4.0GHz, 16 GB, Windows 10 (latest), 64-bit, 500GB SSD OS HDD, 1.5TB 7200 SATA Recording, 2x 1TB SSD Samples, MOTU 8M, Behringer X-Touch
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    robert_e_bone
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    Re: MIDI & Kontakt 5 Multi Volume Help? 2017/04/20 02:44:57 (permalink)
    I routinely load up multiple instruments into a single instance of Kontakt, and when loading them, Kontakt will - by default - auto-increment the midi channel number assigned to each instrument, starting with 1, then 2, 3, 4, etc.
     
    I only load maybe 5 instruments into a single Kontakt instance, because the displayed choices when setting an associated audio track's input shows up kind of messed up after a certain number of Kontakt outputs are displayed.  By my keeping the number of instruments in a given instance to a max of 4 or 5, that problem does not occur.
     
    As far as PLAYING a live performance, I would suggest using a performance-built VST Host, such as Brainspawn's Forte, or Cantabile, as they are specifically designed for live performance, and have MANY optimizations for that, whereas with Sonar, you have all of the software for handling the recording process going along for the ride, but you wouldn't really use any of that functionality - it's just then working REALLY hard to allow you to play live.  (Sonar is not really built for that kind of usage).
     
    For example, with Forte, you load up 15-20 VST synths, then you can create any number of presets, combining any of the loaded synths you want - or don't include others, and have each synth set to whatever of its own presets you want - and save off each of those layered combinations (with anywhere from 1 synth to all of them, in each saved preset), ready for INSTANT preset switching.  This includes SAMPLE-BASED synths, like Kontakt.  For a sample-based instrument, you can tell Forte to NOT reload samples for that instrument on any preset change, so that if you have a nice 2 GB piano sample loaded into Kontakt, when you switch away from a piano preset and then later switch back to use the piano preset again - those samples are still loaded, so the preset change is INSTANT.
     
    Further, for the synths NOT involved in a given preset, which would have them muted, it drops their CPU and memory overhead WAY down, until they are needed for some other preset.  That makes it quite efficient, and keeps the strain of having a bunch of synths loaded into what is really one giant synth rack.
     
    Anyways - check it out.  Forte is what I use for live performance, though I do have Cantabile Lite, which is free.  I don't know the web site for Cantabile, but Forte is at: www.brainspawn.com They give you a trial version you can play around with, if desired.
     
    So back to Sonar and Kontakt, so if you have a Kontakt instance loaded with Piano, Strings, Rhodes, and Bass, on midi channels 1, 2, 3, and 4, you would need to also set the Midi Output Channel on the 4 midi tracks you would have inserted, to the corresponding midi channel for that instrument, so midi tracks Piano, Strings, Rhodes, and Bass would need their midi output channels ALSO set to midi channels 1, 2, 3, and 4 to match the channel set for each instrument as loaded into that Kontakt instance.
     
    FURTHER, Kontakt will default the audio OUTPUT for ALL of those instruments, to the main outputs, 1 and 2.  That won't work well since all of the sounds would be jumbled together into 1 set of stereo outputs.  Once I get a given Kontakt instance loaded up with instruments, I then make sure the Kontakt instance has the Output Section displayed, then down in the output section, there is a drop-down menu with some batch functions, and I click on the batch function that tells Kontakt to erase whatever is in the current output section, and to then create a separate stereo output channel for each loaded instrument.  THIS is how I am then able to set the Sonar audio track INPUTS to the correct audio output from the Kontakt instance, for a given instrument.  Each instrument will present a mono left, mono right, and a stereo audio output in the list that drops down when you are setting the audio track INPUTS for the audio tracks I would have inserted for playing the sounds for each of the instruments from the Kontakt instance.
     
    SO, it is the combination of an instrument in a Kontakt instance, being assigned to its OWN audio outputs and its own midi channel in that Kontakt instance, AND having a midi track having its Midi Output Channel set to the correct midi channel for that instrument as set in the Kontakt instance, AND having an audio track's INPUT set to pick up the correct audio OUTPUT for that instrument, from the Kontakt instance, and lastly, having the Midi Echo On button lit for that midi track.
     
    If ALL of the above are set correctly, then as you bring a desired midi track into focus, it should automatically set Midi Echo On for that track to ON, and then  when you trigger notes on your midi controller, the proper midi channel for that instrument (as set in the midi track Midi Output Channel), will send the correct midi channel to the Kontakt instance, resulting in the proper instrument producing audio output, which when will get routed through that instrument's separate audio output from the Kontakt instance's output section, which then will get properly picked up by the associated audio track's INPUT assignment, which should then be able to be heard.
     
    Switching focus to a different midi track would then do all of the above for THAT instrument, and so on.
     
    I hope that helps, 
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
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    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
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    #4
    fwrend
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    Re: MIDI & Kontakt 5 Multi Volume Help? 2017/04/24 14:07:01 (permalink)
    Bob, thanks for your thorough post - a couple of good takeaways!  The concert went great without issue.
     
    Actually, Sonar performed great and just sat there behind the scenes.  I disabled all of the input drivers and only enabled the number of output drivers needed.  I've glanced at both Forte and Cantabile and almost bit on Forte (still may).
     
    Sorry, if my OP wasn't clear - it was posted hastily.  My main question was really to do with 1) manipulating the volume of each instrument independently within a Kontakt multi.  I did indeed use one instance of Kontakt with 4 instruments assigned to 4 different MIDI channels as stated. 
     
    It seemed I could only manipulate the volume of the top instrument.  My keyboard controller has 4 assignable faders & buttons, 3 MOD wheels, and 2 expression pedals.  Perhaps it lies with my keyboard in that the 07 Volume assignment is Global instead of per MIDI channel?
     
    2) Manipulating volume (and/or assigning other MIDI variables) of instruments of a keyboard split.  Again, this may be a controller limitation.  In some of my presets the keyboard was split into two sections (at the most) where the left hand played strings in one of the Kontakt instruments and the right hand played the solo violin in the UVI Workstation.
     
    Anyway, I've still some investigation to do and knowledge to gain which I need to do before the need arises rather than the night before lol!
     
    Thanks again!

    Wren 

    Studio Cat DAW i7-4790K 4.0GHz, 16 GB, Windows 10 (latest), 64-bit, 500GB SSD OS HDD, 1.5TB 7200 SATA Recording, 2x 1TB SSD Samples, MOTU 8M, Behringer X-Touch
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