MIDI Latency issue

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tbiggins
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2014/05/07 22:09:39 (permalink)

MIDI Latency issue

I am having some issue with my midi latency. It seems to take 200 msec to register midi notes. I will try to post as much relevant information as possible. I have played around with settings as much as possible already, maybe I am missing something though.
 
 
Hardware and Software
-----------
Intel Core i7-4600MQ @2.4ghz
16 gigs ram
sound card seems to be attached to motherboard. It's by IDT...
Roland UM-ONE USB to midi interface w/ yamaha p-85 digital piano
 
Sonar X3. 
It doesn't seem to matter if I use dimension or I use true piano, and synths will give me latency.
------------
 
 
Settings
----------------------
Audio driver bit depth is 16
Buffers in Playback Queue:10
Buffer Size:10msec,441 samples (effective latency is 90msec)
 
I turned off key aftertouch
System exclusive is ticked with 80 buffers (I unticked echo system exclusive
 
Playback uses 20 millisecond buffer
and "always echo current midi track" is checked
---------------------
 
These are the only settings I have tried to tinker with. What settings could I change? I think it may be my soundcard, but the computer was prebuilt, could I purchase a external soundcard if that is the problem?
 
 
#1

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    scook
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    Re: MIDI Latency issue 2014/05/07 22:18:38 (permalink)
    "MIDI latency" is really audio latency. The sound card is a problem. For real-time monitoring you need to be able to run the sound card at 10ms or less round trip latency. An audio interface designed for DAW use will improve performance. The latency can also be negatively affected by adding plug-ins designed for mixing and mastering while tracking. To see if plug-ins are adding to the problem, they can be toggled off/on with the keyboard shortcut "E".
    #2
    tbiggins
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    Re: MIDI Latency issue 2014/05/07 23:36:10 (permalink)
    Will using an audio interface get rid of my latency issues or do I have to purchase a new sound card?
    #3
    scook
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    Re: MIDI Latency issue 2014/05/07 23:46:50 (permalink)
    An audio interface will take over all the audio tasks for the DAW. Whether the audio interface handles all windows audio is up to you. Some prefer to use the internal sound card for everything except the DAW, others disable the internal sound card and use the audio interface exclusively. In my case, I leave the internal card enabled and occasionally use it but primarily rely on an external audio interface for all audio tasks.
    #4
    tbiggins
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    Re: MIDI Latency issue 2014/05/08 00:12:38 (permalink)
    That makes sense. So when I use an audio interface, I select options>audio>devices and then I will have new input and output driver options, which I would change to my audio interface? Then I plug my headphones or whatever into the audio interface?
     
     
     
    I really just want to record one device would something like this work fine for my purposes? Thanks for your help.
     
    Presonus AudioBox 22VSL 24-Bit/96 kHz 2x2 USB 2.0 Audio Interface
    #5
    RobertB
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    Re: MIDI Latency issue 2014/05/08 00:23:41 (permalink)
    An audio interface takes over the audio tasks(A/D D/A conversion) from your sound card. In essence, it is a sound card, but with more sophisticated capabilities. You would be using it exclusively with Sonar in lieu of the built-in sound card.
    If you are performing and recording live MIDI input, a proper interface is monumentally essential.
    You will see that many of us have an interface of some kind listed in our signatures.
    Depending on your needs( inputs, outputs, MIDI, etc), a decent unit can be had for $150 or more.
    At the $250 mark, there are lots of options.
    Look here for some ideas:
    http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/computer-audio/audio_interfaces/
    Understand that your DAW is a system. For to be at its best, the software and hardware must be able to operate at a higher level than basic PC requirements.
    Spend some time checking out the specs on the various units. Your interface is a key component.
    Consider your requirements, current and future.
    In my laptop based scenario, the Akai EIE Pro was a perfect fit. On of the Focusrite Scarlett series may be a perfect fit for you.
    And yes, it will get rid of your latency issues if you get a decent one.
     
    Edit: basically what scook wrote
    post edited by RobertB - 2014/05/08 00:30:47

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    #6
    scook
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    Re: MIDI Latency issue 2014/05/08 00:28:35 (permalink)
    Yes, the audio interface would show as an audio device in SONAR and as a sound device in Windows (if you want to route windows sound to it).
     
    Yes, audio interfaces typically have line out for speakers and headphone out for headphone connections.
     
    Yes, the Presonus AudioBox 22VSL would work, it also has MIDI I/O so there would be no need for the Roland UM-ONE. Although you could use both if you wish.
     
    #7
    Steve_Karl
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    Re: MIDI Latency issue 2014/05/08 02:28:44 (permalink)
    Is it still true that PCI audio cards still out perform USB and Firewire when it comes to latency?
    If yes then I'd recommend and M-Audio Audiophile 24/96.
    I know that they can run at 1.5ms even on an old single core AMD
    and are very good sounding cards and have midi in and out. Possibly 2 of each. Can't remember for sure.

    If you need more audio outs then I'd look for a used Echo Digital Audio Gina3G on eBay.
    G3g has midi and also 2 mic preamp ins that are pretty decent.
    This card also does 1.5ms with no problems even on a very old PC.

    Steve Karl
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    #8
    pghboemike
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    Re: MIDI Latency issue 2014/05/08 02:38:30 (permalink)
    i suggest whichever interface you consider be sure to check the manufacture's site for the latest asio drivers for your operating system
     
    Optimising The Latency Of Your PC Audio Interface
     
    PreSonus | Learn - The Truth About Digital Audio Latency

    asus laptop Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3230M CPU @ 2.60GHz 8 GB RAM 64 bit Windows 8 home Premium casio wk7500 roland quadCapture audio\midi usb interface sonar producer 64 bit X3e  
    #9
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: MIDI Latency issue 2014/05/08 09:43:09 (permalink)
    The reason for using a dedicated audio interface, rather than the on-board sound, is that there are massive amounts of data being converted back and forth between digital/analog, and the audio interfaces are explicitly designed to do all of that work with specialized circuitry, which means that the computer's CPU does not have to be burdened with all of that.
     
    With NO audio interface present, all of that data conversion has to be handled by the CPU, which has a zillion other things to do, too.  By overloading the CPU, it falls behind in it ability to process all of this data - which keeps getting thrown at it.  The result is choppy playback, with lots of noise, crackles, pops, delays, and dropouts.
     
    Windows can handle playing the standard Windows sounds and simple audio song files, or play YouTube videos, because those do not contain anywhere near the amount of data that you have in a Sonar project.
     
    SOOOO - depending on the features you want, a decent sounding audio interface will start at around $125-$150, and go on up from there,  Mine ran $500, but it is because of the extra features on it.
     
    The ones that run in the $150 range will usually have a couple of inputs (usually a combo input, that can take in either a 1.4" instrument cable or an XLR cable), and a couple of outputs.  Some have XLR outputs, some have 1/4" outputs, and some have both.
     
    Look for something that has a couple of mic pre-amps and phantom power, which is used to power certain microphones.
     
    Also, make SURE the interface has drivers for Windows 7, and should have them also for Windows 8 AND Windows 8.1, because some interface makers allow sometimes years to pass before building drivers for newer OS versions, and this can be a problem.  The Windows 8.1 drivers may not be out yet, but certainly Windows 8 drivers should be available.
     
    Most USB connected audio interfaces use USB 2 ports, so make sure you have one available on your computer.  Some computers have only USB 3 ports, and these sometimes do not play well with audio interfaces that were expecting a USB 2 port.  My Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL freaks out if it gets plugged into a USB 3 port, for example.
     
    When you DO get an interface, I would suggest the following starting point for settings:
     
    For the interface settings: Sample Rate of 44.1 k or 48 k, and an ASIO Buffer Size of 128
     
    For Sonar: Driver Mode of ASIO, Sample Rate that matches setting of audio interface, Record Bit-Depth of 24 Bits.  Shoot for a Total Roundtrip Latency reported by Sonar, of around 10 ms or just a little less.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #10
    CJaysMusic
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    Re: MIDI Latency issue 2014/05/08 11:07:18 (permalink)
    sound card seems to be attached to motherboard. It's by IDT...

    and this is your problem. 

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    #11
    tbiggins
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    Re: MIDI Latency issue 2014/05/08 21:49:42 (permalink)
    I figured it was the integrated soundcard. Thanks to each of you for your answers and confirmation. 
     
    I am thinking about the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, it handles USB 3.0. However I am concerned that the preamps won't deliver enough gain(+55 dB max). I have two Fat Head ribbon mics and want to record an acoustic accordion, which I think needs about 65 dB gain. 
    #12
    Anderton
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    Re: MIDI Latency issue 2014/05/09 10:33:12 (permalink)
    Ribbons generally want more than 55 dB. You may end up needing an external preamp. Also, most USB 2.0 interfaces are compatible with USB 3.0.

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    #13
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