MIDI Performance Tips - How to make convincing drums, bass, etc.?

There was an article in March 2011's edition of Computer Music called "Keeping it Real": Program realistic strings, guitar, winds and brass.

Find more stuff here: http://www.musicradar.com/computermusic

From my own experience, using the CAL files "Random Time" and "Humanize" goes a long way in this respect. Also, learning how the instruments are played, orchestrated and their inherent limitations allows you to program more realistically (e.g. no drummers with three feet and four hands, or strings playing in ultra-stratospheric ranges!!). The instrument you use is also critical. The best results I've had have come from my recent purchase of NI Komplete 7 especially MM-Scarbee Bass (which is unbelievably realistic when you get to grips with it) and the Kontakt Sax and Brass for Kore 2/player. For Drums, XLN Audios Addictive Drums and Toontrack's ezDrummer plugins are excellently modeled. Some of Session Drummer 3's presets are not too bad either but don't have the depth of dynamic range for my liking (the free Ocean Way download that came with Sonar 8.5 is, however, a little closer to what I like). There are some very good presets in Dimension Pro for Acoustic bass, especially in the new expansion pack 3 (which is a free download for registered members from the cakewalk store)



Hope this helps :)

learning how the instruments are played, orchestrated and their inherent limitations

This is exactly the sort of info I'm after.  I'd love to see videos of someone playing a real instrument (e.g., bass) and then someone mimicking it via midi.  Even just an audio equivalent would be cool.

I notice you mentioned both Kontakt and Dimension Pro.  Do you use both regularly?  Is one better for certain instruments than the other?

this is a tut I made on making drums sound as convincing as possible,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruAnAPR6-hQ

daveny5


It helps if you have a MIDI keyboard that allows you to play the parts as you record them into Sonar. Just typing the notes into Piano Roll View or entering them in the staff view isn't going to sound realistic unless you add a lot of control information i.e., volume, expression, attack, modulation. aftertouch, etc. that give you the "eyebrows" on the notes, as Frank Zappa described it. It also helps if you know about the instrument you are trying to emulate so that you can simulate the playing technique, style, range, etc. that a real player would use. Its not easy. Just having a good sample isn't enough to make it sound real, but it helps. 

ive done it both ways and I still think prv will allow you to make a midi drum line sound real as possible
with not much effort at all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruAnAPR6-hQ

I was just looking at this one. It's a bit of an older sonar version but he uses the step sequencer in SD3 really well, showing how to add swing and feel you wouldn't expect from midi.
This is #3 of a series in the master classes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_493832&feature=iv&src_vid=Hnkl_BrbrHQ&v=h3sKXjBgjoE

get your velocities tweeked as well,not every hit will be the same

"I'm a Midician afterall LOL " lol me as well, i like that one, thats ma new war cry, am a midician

C'mon....maybe a basic rock and roll drum beat, but you can't do anything even close to the skills of a real drummer without using audio drum loops. You can't even do a convincing roll with MIDI. 

If you have drumming skills, using a nice V-drum kit as a MIDI controller goes a LONG way toward making sequenced/MIDI drum tracks sound authentic.  The mesh V-drum pads are extremely sensitive... and you can perform and effectively record rolls and other subtle nuances.


I have heard some great drum sequences produced using just the PRV, but I just wouldn't have the patience for that...   
A real drummer's clock/time isn't perfect, but it isn't random either.  It has ebb and flow.  The time is pushed/pulled in an "elastic" manner.


Generally speaking, to program realistic MIDI parts, you have to be able to think like a bass player, guitar player, drummer, etc.
If you have skills playing bass, guitar, drums, etc... sometimes it's just quicker/easier to record the real thing.

daveny... C'mon....maybe a basic rock and roll drum beat, but you can't do anything even close to the skills of a real drummer without using audio drum loops. You can't even do a convincing roll with MIDI.

Meh. I've got a tune on the go with some very complex drum parts I programmed in PRV and am running through BFD. With the humanize and anti machine gun features in BFD and a bit of manual tweaking in the PRV it's sounding pretty darned real. It's a lot of work though. I also used to play drums too so that helps.

It all comes back to either actually being a musician and manipulating different tools given us by technology, Or not being a musician and trying to sound like one using the tools given to us by technology. 

Which one is going to sound better---real? 

Real drummer= 15- 45 minutes to lay down a great drum track. 
Nerd with computer- 3 days and it still sounds bad..... so so..


Not meaning to sound rude, but the best solution is to learn to play the instrument first.. then try and beat MIDI into submission..  :) 

But I guess there are those who enjoy the process and don't mind taking days to program a part. 

That's why I avoid strings... I suck... 

Big plus 1 here...

Jim Roseberry

............................................Generally speaking, to program realistic MIDI parts, you have to be able to think like a bass player, guitar player, drummer, etc. 

If you have skills playing bass, guitar, drums, etc... sometimes it's just quicker/easier to record the real thing.

I disagree a little with some of this--but that's why there's chocolate and vanilla.  If the virtual drums are real drum samples and you program good parts, there is no inherent reason it cannot sound as good as a drummer.
 
The question, though, is whether you will think of parts that are as good as the drummer will.  I think up better parts than some drummers and not as good parts as some drummers.
 
I have not been happy with loops, either audio or MIDI.  It seems they never have the exact feel I want, or they are too busy, or the dynamic range is too great, or they do not match the bass part I want, etc.

For a recent song, I thought my drum part was too plain.  I asked myself "How would Ringo play this?"  I listened to "Ticket to Ride."  My part ended up being nothing like "Ticket to Ride" but it broke me out of my block and caused me to do some things that I actually think Ringo would have done on the song.  (For the song in question, Ringo was a good choice.  That is not always the answer for every song. )

daveny5

ive done it both ways and I still think prv will allow you to make a midi drum line sound real as possible with not much effort at all

C'mon....maybe a basic rock and roll drum beat, but you can't do anything even close to the skills of a real drummer without using audio drum loops. You can't even do a convincing roll with MIDI. 

this comment shows your lack of use in the piano roll.
you've never made a convincing roll in the piano roll? serious?
though between this and your first comment im very confused.
 
this is what you said "It helps if you have a MIDI keyboard that allows you to play the parts as you record them into Sonar."
correct ?
 
if you think you can bang out a better drum roll using your fingers on a keyboard VS. editing by hand in the piano roll, have at it. lol.
 
 

what makes midi triggered drums sound realistic is the flaws, the human feel,(some notes are louder than others)
the tempo slightly drifts between 1/100's of the beat.

I did 4 videos on this, from drum triggering to editing to using a keyboard to hand tap.
the only thing better than a midi drum kit is a real kit.
but some of us don't have this luxury, either our kids are sleeping in the other room or we just don't have a kit.
this thread has gone array and a stray from the op original question.
think about it.

he wanted to know about tutorials on (making realistic-sounding performances for drums, bass, etc. using soft synths? )

myself and a couple other people have given the op useful resources, the rest sounds like an argument over digital vs audio.