jbraner
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MIDI Transform tool
Hi, I'm not trying to be funny - but I don't really see that much of a reason for the MIDI transform tool. For example - isn't it easier to just use the freehand tool to re-draw your CC data the way you want it? Rather than enable the transform tool, pick the right selection, work out what you're doing, drag the correct corner... I'm sure it's just me, but I think it's easer to just use the smart tool and re-draw CC data, or volumes (which overwrites what's already there). Hopefully, I'm missing something - and there is a more useful reason to have this tool 
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/28 17:39:45
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☄ Helpfulby dcumpian 2017/04/28 17:49:28
Its great for me. I want to preserve the breath controller data's shape, but make subtle adjustments. I don't want to go through take re-drawing what I performed. I'm really happy about, feels so much more intuitive. Pulling up the velocities over half a bar incrementally, modifying the shape, but keeping the dynamic shape.
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jbraner
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/28 18:04:57
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Hmm - I just swipe the mouse over it to redraw, and reshape.
If it's not right, hit ctrl-z and try again ;-)
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/28 18:16:45
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If you play a wind controller, then you trigger every note with air pressure, and shape the attack. More so than with a breath controller, as note are still triggered by the key, and you are shaping with breath pressure.
If you played a nice vibrato, but was a little fast of slow, you can drag it out now, or speed up the beginning and slow the end. Or you can draw and re-draw until you get it right. This way is much more intuitive, responsive.
Probably the best update for me in the last year.
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/28 18:23:21
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Little things like this help making adjustments without affecting the following note so much easier. It's brilliant, I can't believe they came out with it, its like they've been reading my mind   I played a simple trumpet line earlier, and briging up the dynamics on some notes, adjusting the attacks, then dropping the velocity made tidying up my performance a breeze.
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jbraner
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/28 19:55:55
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OK, I don't use a wind (or breath) controller - so fair enough 😉
I'm glad to hear that there are good uses for this - I figured there would be...
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Steve_Karl
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/29 13:58:44
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jbraner
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/29 15:30:01
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Hi Steve,
I know how it works - that's why I was (still) wondering why it isn't easier to just swipe your mouse over the CC data to "fix" it.
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/29 15:48:40
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Why play a keyboard if you can just enter the notes in PRV?
Also, what if it's not broken?
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SquireBum
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/29 16:32:22
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jbraner
Hi,
I'm not trying to be funny - but I don't really see that much of a reason for the MIDI transform tool.
For example - isn't it easier to just use the freehand tool to re-draw your CC data the way you want it? Rather than enable the transform tool, pick the right selection, work out what you're doing, drag the correct corner...
I'm sure it's just me, but I think it's easer to just use the smart tool and re-draw CC data, or volumes (which overwrites what's already there).
Hopefully, I'm missing something - and there is a more useful reason to have this tool
The attached image shows 8 bars of CC #1 used to modulate volume for Violins I in Garritan Personal Orchestra. You may have greater mouse drawing skills than I do, but I certainly would not want to redraw these 8 bars with the exact shape when I wanted to scale the volume up or down by 10%. I am not being sarcastic, but using your analogy, Cakewalk could just remove the ability the change the length of an existing note with the mouse and just force the user to erase the note and redraw it.  Hope this helps, -- Ron
Cakewalk by Bandlab, Sonar Platinum x64 2017.10, X3E, X2a, X1d, 8.5 Windows 10 x64 AMD Phenom II X4 955 3.20 GHz 8 GB Ram Nvidia GeForce 9500 GT Echo Gina 3G
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WallyG
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/29 17:44:20
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SquireBum
jbraner
Hi,
I'm not trying to be funny - but I don't really see that much of a reason for the MIDI transform tool.
For example - isn't it easier to just use the freehand tool to re-draw your CC data the way you want it? Rather than enable the transform tool, pick the right selection, work out what you're doing, drag the correct corner...
I'm sure it's just me, but I think it's easer to just use the smart tool and re-draw CC data, or volumes (which overwrites what's already there).
Hopefully, I'm missing something - and there is a more useful reason to have this tool
The attached image shows 8 bars of CC #1 used to modulate volume for Violins I in Garritan Personal Orchestra. You may have greater mouse drawing skills than I do, but I certainly would not want to redraw these 8 bars with the exact shape when I wanted to scale the volume up or down by 10%.
I am not being sarcastic, but using your analogy, Cakewalk could just remove the ability the change the length of an existing note with the mouse and just force the user to erase the note and redraw it.
Hope this helps,
-- Ron
Ron, you've made some good points. Walt
Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors, My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
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jbraner
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/30 10:00:41
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but I certainly would not want to redraw these 8 bars with the exact shape when I wanted to scale the volume up or down by 10%.
I am not being sarcastic, but using your analogy, Cakewalk could just remove the ability the change the length of an existing note with the mouse and just force the user to erase the note and redraw it. Hi Ron, I'm not being sarcastic either - I really meant to ask an honest question, and always assume that it's me who's missing something ;-) How did you get those modulation curves in the first place? Just by random twiddling of the mod wheel right? So what's the big deal with re-drawing them with a mouse - you might make them "better" ;-) You literally just drag your mouse over and see if it sounds better or not. If not, ctrl-z and you're back where you started. If they're not "random", then you've drawn them in with a mouse in the first place- right? Why play a keyboard if you can just enter the notes in PRV? Kamikaze - I'm not sure what you mean by that. honestly - I started this conversation fully expecting to be educated as to what I'm missing... ;-)
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/30 11:27:05
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Test Edit. Forum doesn't like my reply 
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/30 11:29:49
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jbraner
How did you get those modulation curves in the first place? Just by random twiddling of the mod wheel right? So what's the big deal with re-drawing them with a mouse - you might make them "better" ;-)
You literally just drag your mouse over and see if it sounds better or not. If not, ctrl-z and you're back where you started.
If they're not "random", then you've drawn them in with a mouse in the first place- right?
Why play a keyboard if you can just enter the notes in PRV?
Kamikaze - I'm not sure what you mean by that.
honestly - I started this conversation fully expecting to be educated as to what I'm missing... ;-)
It's performed data, not just random twiddle and hoping. With the windcontroller, it's your breath that is shaping the note. Regards my comment, I mean, you play a keyboard to create notes you want at the velocities, duration, timing etc. You could just programme, but you don't because you can create a better feel , and you may make small adjustments after. It's the same with a wind controller, or a breath controller, it's date created with purpose. It's not just random movements, and I may be very happy with the shape, the timing, the feel, but I need to bring down the start a touch, bring up the middle. There could be 30 odd notes in a passage, all with a movement of the breath CC for each note. Wind and breath controllers are a means of creating very expressive performances. with wind cntrollers, you play like a sax, and with breath controllers you add expression will playing the keyboard.
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/30 11:30:39
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With ASDR you shape the envelope of the filter and amp, which makes them respond like a percussion or plucked instruments, such as a piano and keyboard. With wind, brass and bowed strings, the don't have a fixed shape. So playing with a breath controller allows you to do the shaping an ASDR would do, but with a constant changes after the attack. When I programme an analogue, I bring the ASDR level down, and create more modulation through the CC2. I treat an analogue more like a wind or brass instrument.
That's just CC2 data, The reed on my Wind controller is a pitch bend for adding vibrato, and there is a further mod whell that can be assigned to a 3rd CC (but that's beyond my playing). Some of the guys programming orchestral performance, have at at least three CCs on the go, for nearly every instrument. Having a tool for finely tuning a good performance is going to be welcomed by some.
The expression show on this video show how using Velocity, Pitch and Exprssion add to the realism. The data was played on either a an Akai or Yamaha wind controller. The sample set has an option to being either played by a wind controller or a piano, which saves me doing the changes that I would make on an analogue
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/30 11:31:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRLxqY285gU Someone has already mentioned, can we have this for Automation, so hopefully it will spill over, because it ise very intuitive for tuning the data. Sorry for the chop up of a post, something was causing the forum to spit it out. Possible an attempt to embed the video
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/30 11:36:37
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jbraner
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/30 11:39:05
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Hi Kamikaze,
Yup, I get it for wind and breath controllers - that is a performance.
For all the rest, it's just a "performance" on the keyboard, that you probably want to tidy up afterwards anyway - like using CC data for your strings volume etc.
Anyway - I'm happy the transform tool is there, although I probably won't use it (much).
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/30 11:46:04
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Breath controllers are on a keyboard, this like the seaboard rise are.....on the rise. keyboardist us mod wheels and pitch bends, and foot pedals.
Even if you are drawing something and it takes you five attempts t get it right, the tool is handy for making later adjustments, and saving 5 more possible attempts.
It reaches a bit further really.
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SquireBum
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/30 17:29:07
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jbraner
Hi Ron,
I'm not being sarcastic either - I really meant to ask an honest question, and always assume that it's me who's missing something ;-)
How did you get those modulation curves in the first place? Just by random twiddling of the mod wheel right? So what's the big deal with re-drawing them with a mouse - you might make them "better" ;-)
You literally just drag your mouse over and see if it sounds better or not. If not, ctrl-z and you're back where you started.
If they're not "random", then you've drawn them in with a mouse in the first place- right?
honestly - I started this conversation fully expecting to be educated as to what I'm missing... ;-)
The modulation curves were initially drawn by hand. The shapes of the curves and levels were fine when the track was solo'ed. When other tracks were added, it became necessary to globally scale the level of all of the CC's in some phrases to better balance with the rest of the instruments while maintaining the shape of note swells. Hand re-drawing the curves to increasing the overall levels while maintaining the existing shapes of the curves was a slow, inaccurate, and repetitive stress inducing process. I don't think you are missing anything.  The Transform tool is just another tool in the toolbox. The Transform tool improves the efficiency and accuracy of scaling large groups of CC events without the tedious and inaccurate effort needed to redraw. I think of it in the same way that Quantize improves the efficiency of moving large groups of MIDI notes closer to the grid without having to drag each individual note. -- Ron
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dilletant
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/04/30 18:14:10
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Just for clarification: simple controller scaling was always possible with Find/Change function under the Process menu. Of course, with the Transform Tool it's much faster and more intuitive, since we have instant visual feedback. Let alone other functions, impossible without TT.
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AdamGrossmanLG
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/05/04 11:15:32
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didnt we ALWAYS have the option to keep the performance the same yet change things like the overall value range by selecting all notes and controllers and then dragging the top line of the controllers? They all move in unison.
I wish a video was made so I can understand the point of the transform tool.
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dilletant
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/05/04 23:00:30
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You've described how to increase/decrease all controller events by the same amount. The TT allows to compress/expand controller values, i.e. change them proportionally.
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/05/05 12:48:37
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☄ Helpfulby dcumpian 2017/05/05 13:05:39
I think this is a clear example, of how easy it is to shape midi data with the transform tool. I've duped this midi from AD2 into the track. It's has a lot of dynamics , i the velocities, with hits at the same time, or almost the same time.  Say you want the drums to gradually increase in volume as you hit the hit the next change. To drag these up one by ne would be a tedious and open to errors. You click 'Transform', and select the data. and pick the right top corner, and drag up.  Resulting in a proportional increase through out the selection. Preserving the dynamics and taking no time to do. 
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/05/05 13:04:03
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dilletant
You've described how to increase/decrease all controller events by the same amount. The TT allows to compress/expand controller values, i.e. change them proportionally.
To demonstrate Dilletant's point, here is expansion. I have the same drum part, but although the is variation in the dynamics, I would like more range. But I want to keep the ghost note at the end the same. After selecting the transform tool, I select the area just above the ghost notes. The bottom of the selection effectively the Threshold.  I select the centre-top and drag up.  Pulling up all the velocities above the selection 'Threshold'. Resulting in a an expanded dynamic range. 
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/05/05 13:15:53
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If I have something with a wide dynamic velocity rage, and I want the softer hits to get louder as I hit the next section. I select everything  I grab the bottom left corner and drag up  resulting in the hard hits staying consistent but a gradual shift of the softer dynamics 
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/05/05 13:20:26
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This a a cool way to take a midi loop, copy it out and shift the dynamics around to add realism movement to the part.
I haven't tried yet, but I think it would work really well on repeating melodic phrases, especially on denser keyboard parts with clusters of chords and moving lines playing against the rest of the mix.
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jbraner
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/05/05 18:51:46
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You've got me convinced. 😉
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SimpleM
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/05/05 19:38:35
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I use crappy drum pads to enter drum information and things like swells and ghosts are hard to play correctly due to the limited pressure steps. In the past I had to meticulously adjust by hand after the fact and now I can speed that process up. I think I am going to like it if it works as advertised.
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Kamikaze
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Re: MIDI Transform tool
2017/05/06 09:11:33
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SimpleM
I use crappy drum pads to enter drum information and things like swells and ghosts are hard to play correctly due to the limited pressure steps. In the past I had to meticulously adjust by hand after the fact and now I can speed that process up. I think I am going to like it if it works as advertised.
I have the Korg Nanopad. It has about a 100 step dynamic range (27-127), so this will help expand the range easily and quickly. There is also a MIDI FX called velocity, so I can also set 'change' and set the to -26 if I want to access softer hits on AD fr playing. If I chain a second MFX after and set to 'scale' 127%, it converts output of the first MXF from 1-100 to 1-127
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