MIDI drums-ie: Session Drummer--Beagle in particular read

Beagle's been making a valient try to use the Session Drummer for coming up with drum tracks. On his new re-mix of a hymn over at Songs, I suggested he not use the drums for now, until he gets a better handle on them.

He posted more about his frustrations using SD, and using a C&P of that post, I want to see if I can help him out--and other folks who know what they're doing with SD, feel free to join in:

"...I'm having a really hard time with them. I think part of the problem that I'm having is that this song (like so many hymns) starts out with 1/4 for the first measure and ends with 2/4 on the last..."

OK, that opening measure just has the down beat of the song, like a lot of 4/4 songs do too. As you start putting in drum tracks--I would ignore that beat and start the drum rhythm with measure 2, the first full measure of music. If you decide later to have a brief drum fill to start the song, then record that "by hand" later.

"... I ended up changing it so that the 1/4 measure is still there for every first measure of each stanza, but I added a 1/4note rest between stanzas, so essentially, I'm breaking music theory rules and I have 1/4 time placed at the beginning of each stanza...

That was a good choice--It's the fermata that you always hear before the next verse of a hymn. I make it a common practice when I do sound-tracks for singers in theatre, to keep most holds, fermatas, to something they can count. In effect, I make the final measure of a phrase 5/4--there's one beat of hold, and it works very naturally.

And once again--it's just something you have to keep in mind as you assemble your drums.

"...I'm still having a hard time really understanding exactly how SD works, too. picking out patterns and placing them in the track doesn't seem intuitive to me. when I place something in the SD "song" frame, then I apply them to the track, it doesn't ever seem to put what I thought it would in the track..."

That song assembly portion of the Session Drummer doesn't have to be used the way it was designed. It really can be too much, trying to assemble tracks for an entire song right there in that window.

Everyone has his own way of working, when it comes to Anything--but here's what I do with SD--it's fast and simple, and really works for me:

I solo the empty MIDI track I'm using for drums. I pick out ONE or maybe TWO patterns, bring them into the HEad of the track--not to where they belong. I keep doing that, pulling out patterns I think may be useful--short fills, 8 bar rhythms, special endings etc.

I've ended up with a whole track of Potential drum clips. Each one is a separate clip, so that's easy to keep straight.

Maybe I start trying out things when I have just a few tracks--I Copy or Cut one of the patterns, and with the Grid lock on, I plop it where I think I need it. I had set out to find an 8 bar pattern for a verse perhaps--Easy to find where I want it, since my projects are all split up by clearly defined Markers.

Audition the clip, exactly where I want it, with all the instruments.

Go back, C&P more clips where I had picturing them working.

Once I like what I have for a structure--I go back and play some special connecting parts on my own, I go to Piano View and edit the heck out of things so they're less perfect--change the Velocity dynamics etc.

Like that.

Basically, I'm saying that I deal with just a very few clips at a time--forget the song assembly window for trying to lay in the whole song--it gets too confusing.

Essential is that you get clips in the right time signature--Most of them are 4/4, but there are some 3/4 patterns.

THEN again--I'm reading a book right now which highly recommends that we forget all that stuff and go back to the "old fashioned" way of doing drums--Playing them, with an Octapad, or with our fingers on the MIDI keyboard--Build custom patterns that are truly fitted for our songs. That's the only way I used to do it. Using Session Drummer helped make the work a bit less time consuming, ANd it gave me some hipper fills etc that I wouldn't have thought of on my own. A combo of both methods perhaps.

But with the hymn, Beagle--It's such a simple song, I feel, like I said on the Songs Forum, that if it had ANy drums, I wouldn't use any crashes, and I'd use a Brush kit--soft sounds, and mixed lower than in pop music. A simple Boom Tish Tish, Boom Tish Tish--just that would get you a long ways towards starting a good 3/4 track if you really wanted one on a hymn you record later.

Randy
rbowser

HI Beeg--Glad you've seen the post, but sorry it wasn't more help. Hmm. SOmething isn't right--Let me work through a C&P of your post:

"...One thing I am also having a hard time with in SD is the placement of the clips...if I do them the way that you are doing them then the placement of the clips don't matter, but it bugs me to have a functionality of something available that I don't understand..."

Then you elaborate on what you're meaning by that. When you say "the placement of the clip don't matter"--by placement, you're meaning the placement in SD's window where you're supposed to be able to construct the whole song, right? And in my method, you're just dealing with one clip at a time, using Snap to Grid, and putting it in. Well--I tried both ways, and my way is Super fast for me, so why not do it that way? Take a tool, make it work for you. Don't work for the tool.

"...When I place a pattern in the SONG frame, it tells me when it will start, and tells me how many measures there are in that pattern, so it should also tell me when it ends. I'm finding however, that it doesn't start when I think it is supposed to, nor does it end when I think it's supposed to. It looks like it will continue the pattern sequence throughout the entire track wherever there is other MIDI in other tracks? Is that really what it's doing? If so, that's causing me a lot of problems trying to get the sequences correct. I would have to create a sequence for the entire song laid out in the SONG frame before I applied it to the track otherwise, it would start repeating the sequence somewhere even though I don't want it to repeat there..."

That's all very strange--The sequences are the length they say they are, and start immediately. I haven't had any experience of them continuing past the time they're supposed to.

But when you said, "...I would have to create a sequence for the entire song laid out in the SONG frame before I applied it to the track..."---That's what you're SUpposed to do. That's what you said you want to be able to do--right? Construct the whole song in that window and then apply it. And THat's the part that I think is too clumsy, and why I adapted the method of working with just one or two clips at a time.

If you really have your song charted out though, with the exact number of measures, with the verses, choruses and bridges all marked--the way you'd make a lead sheet for a singer or musician, --then you should be able to use the Song construction tool in SD. You know exactly how long each part needs to be--start assembling it. If you want to be an engineer and get the program to work as it was really designed (even though it's slower and clumsier that way)--then that's what ya gotta do. Make your chart and stick to it by the letter as you assemble the clips.
"...
It also doesn't seem to start at Measure 1:01 even tho that's what it says in the Song frame. I've seen it start later, again, usually it looks like it's associating with other midi tracks to know where to start. Which is very frustrating since I was trying to lay down a "click off" before the rest of the song started and that made the click off start at the beginning of the song, so the actual drum part was late..."

That part sounds like you're not inserting silence--like for the first beats of that count in measure with the pick up note.

I have to ask you, really, why all this convoluted torture trying to get it to work? I So guarantee that using the program the way I described works perfectly. Start listening to your song, then realize--"Oh I need 4 more measures of the basic rhythm pattern"--great, go get a copy of what you've already imported, or go grab a clip. Put it in--Move on to the next section. Fill in the blanks.

I actually think it's Not a good thing to want a program to do All the work--These things are here for giving us assistance, but not for completely automating the song producing process.

"... to assume that if it's NOT marked on the pattern name as a different time sig that it's to be 4/4?..."

Yeah, that's right.

"...I must be doing something wrong with SD..." --Well, I think you're just Way over complicating it for yourself. It sounds like you really want to construct the whole drum part inside that program and have it instantly work. I urge you to not do it that way. Use your discretion--listen to clips--if you like some, put them in where they're needed. Record fill in parts by yourself--drop in some of those short 2/4 Snare or Tom fills--But don't try to make this SD robotically come up with the whole drum performance for you.

Randy
rbowser

Hiya, Beagle---Good stuff, using the book to get a better handle on this MIDI drumming stuff. I admire your tenacity. When I first started facing the need to have drum tracks, I got copies of Modern Drummer magazine which was useful, since they would publish easily read lead sheets. Those were practice for me on the old drum machine I used at the time.

This is a hoot though--the way you misunderstood what "fills" were. HEhehehe--so you were putting in all those busy bits actually meant just for--um,--fills. Now that would be a problem. Glad you figured out that basic misunderstanding.

Drums for pop music can really be very simple. They often don't sound like much by themselves. And I think often its best for us keyboardists to keep it simple and sketched in rather than busting our brains trying to do all the subtle variations that actual drummers do.

It was a nice surprise to see this thread resurrected. Glad if I've been of any help.

More power to you, Beagle!

Randy
rbowser