3dmus
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MIDI loop recording - workflow question
Hi - I just started working with X3 (previously owned 8.5) and was wondering if there are some workflow tips for MIDI loop recording. Take the following scenario: I create a VST track with a drum kit, record a few bars with just the bass and snare drum (without metronome), map the tempo, create a loop and there you go, nice loop.
Now I want to add some hi-hats, cymbals etc on the same track in loop mode....however, what I ideally would like is a type of take/comping mode so that I don't hear the previous hihat etc take, but still hear the bass + snare drum....This would allow me to record until I get the perfect take. So, in essence it should auto-mute all previous takes apart from the original bass drum & snare (and of course the current take I am recording). I suppose this can easily be done by just creating a separate track and/or some clever MIDI routing, but just want to check if there isn't a way to do it all on a single track.
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Brando
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Re: MIDI loop recording - workflow question
2013/10/03 13:44:52
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☄ Helpfulby 3dmus 2013/10/03 16:45:17
3dmus
Hi - I just started working with X3 (previously owned 8.5) and was wondering if there are some workflow tips for MIDI loop recording. Take the following scenario: I create a VST track with a drum kit, record a few bars with just the bass and snare drum (without metronome), map the tempo, create a loop and there you go, nice loop.
Now I want to add some hi-hats, cymbals etc on the same track in loop mode....however, what I ideally would like is a type of take/comping mode so that I don't hear the previous hihat etc take, but still hear the bass + snare drum....This would allow me to record until I get the perfect take. So, in essence it should auto-mute all previous takes apart from the original bass drum & snare (and of course the current take I am recording). I suppose this can easily be done by just creating a separate track and/or some clever MIDI routing, but just want to check if there isn't a way to do it all on a single track.
The new Comping feature is great for this. I was just playing around with it with a B3 softsynth (VB3) - loop the rest of your project and just record enable the MIDI track for the softsynth and set the record options for Comping, etc. After reading your post, I figured I would try this on drums and tested it on Jamstix and it's pretty cool - I have 16 drum tracks set up in Jamstix in a project. I created one Midi track and tried comping using my MIDI keyboard. It's even easier for drums because each note is mapped to a particular drum - so you can comp several kick lanes then snare, etc, on each pass using the same MIDI track to record each drum, and as many passes as you like of each. In this case, I was hearing the drums from the Jamstix engine overlayed with the MIDI driven tracks as I was creating them from the keyboard. Best bet is to give it a try. I am still learning the comping feature but it is really great here so far. Best
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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3dmus
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Re: MIDI loop recording - workflow question
2013/10/03 16:45:03
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Thanks for your feedback Brando. I guess your solution is reliant on a multi-out VST? B/c when I try it just on a single track VST, I can't hear the original take (bass + snare in my case) when I select the comping mode. I know this makes from a comping perspective (when you do vocals you don't want to hear your previous take etc).
Thx again!
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Sanderxpander
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Re: MIDI loop recording - workflow question
2013/10/03 17:38:57
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I think this works with audio, not sure about midi, but if you actually stop recording after the bass and snare parts, and then restart it for the hats, you should hear the previously recorded clip (i.e. Bass/snare).
If that doesn't work I'm afraid you're stuck with splitting tracks. You can still merge them later if you want.
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3dmus
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Re: MIDI loop recording - workflow question
2013/10/03 18:17:48
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Thanks Sander. That's what I thought, just wanted to ensure I wasn't missing anything obvious!
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Brando
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Re: MIDI loop recording - workflow question
2013/10/03 19:59:09
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3dmus
Thanks for your feedback Brando. I guess your solution is reliant on a multi-out VST? B/c when I try it just on a single track VST, I can't hear the original take (bass + snare in my case) when I select the comping mode. I know this makes from a comping perspective (when you do vocals you don't want to hear your previous take etc). Thx again!
Hmm. I just tried it with a simple instrument track using a single instance of Microtonic playing a pattern via its own engine. I enable echo on on the instrument track and can use the above method to comp additional hits from my midi keyboard to individual take lanes. Each time I can hear the original pattern plus what I added in the take that is currently selected. What drum synth are you working with?
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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3dmus
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Re: MIDI loop recording - workflow question
2013/10/04 04:40:47
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Odd - I've tried it with Cakewalk SI Drums, Superior Drummer and Cakewalk Sound Center. No joy...I must be missing something! What I do:
- insert soft synth (default options, simple instrument track)
- ensure record mode is set to comping (but tried other settings too)
- ensure input echo is on
- record bass drum + snare drum
- stop recording
- create loop
- record again trying to add the hi-hats etc --> can't hear the original bass drum + snare drum
Must be some very simple thing I'm missing here??
Thanks for all your input so far Brando, I appreciate it.
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Brando
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Re: MIDI loop recording - workflow question
2013/10/04 09:27:49
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3dmus
Must be some very simple thing I'm missing here??
Yes - Set your Recording Mode to "Sound on Sound" for Midi - The term is misleading a bit as it really refers to the routing. "Comping" as a recording mode implies you are tracking to a sound source (other tracks) while recording your audio to separate tracks. For your application, you want to select SOS - the "Comping" feature still works exactly the same way. Turn Take Lanes On, Record Enable your Track (not the layer) and go. I just confirmed this worked with Session Drummer here.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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3dmus
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Re: MIDI loop recording - workflow question
2013/10/04 10:59:46
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Hmmm- I had tried that too, but it doesn't mute my previous takes; it still records it in takes, and later on I can select the "right" one, but during recording I hear all takes....Strangely enough, at one point it worked, but then it stopped. Maybe I inadvertently changed a setting? I don't think there's a "mute previous take" setting somewhere? (aside under the punch-in recording setting, but I am not using that).
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Brando
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Re: MIDI loop recording - workflow question
2013/10/04 11:49:43
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3dmus
Hmmm- I had tried that too, but it doesn't mute my previous takes; it still records it in takes, and later on I can select the "right" one, but during recording I hear all takes....Strangely enough, at one point it worked, but then it stopped. Maybe I inadvertently changed a setting? I don't think there's a "mute previous take" setting somewhere? (aside under the punch-in recording setting, but I am not using that).
My settings - just confirmed they work here with Session Drummer Recording Mode - Sound on Sound Allow Arm changes - off Auto Punch - off Loop Recording: Show Takes in a single Track on Lanes: Create New Lanes on Overlap on Multi-track grouping - "Do not group tracks" What I do is I set up an (eg) 5 bar loop region and start recording when the marker hits the second bar. Echo on on the Simple Instrument Track Record Enable on the track not the first take lane Record Hit stop after each take, record to start a new take - the takes should each occupy a separate take lane - at least they do here.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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3dmus
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Re: MIDI loop recording - workflow question
2013/10/04 13:54:36
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Brando
Hit stop after each take, record to start a new take - the takes should each occupy a separate take lane - at least they do here.
Ah, this may be where we differ? My intent is to keep the loop going until I've got that "perfect" take, and only stop then? My settings are identical to yours, but when I keep looping, I hear the previous take. So for instance: 1) record kick + snare 2) hit "stop" 30 Loop record hi-hats: say, I got through it 4 times....I can't keep it to mute the previous takes....i.e. I'm not stopping each time I have gone through the kick + snare pattern. Apologies for taking up your time...
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Brando
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Re: MIDI loop recording - workflow question
2013/10/04 14:22:17
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3dmus
Brando
Hit stop after each take, record to start a new take - the takes should each occupy a separate take lane - at least they do here.
Ah, this may be where we differ? My intent is to keep the loop going until I've got that "perfect" take, and only stop then?
My settings are identical to yours, but when I keep looping, I hear the previous take. So for instance:
1) record kick + snare
2) hit "stop"
30 Loop record hi-hats: say, I got through it 4 times....I can't keep it to mute the previous takes....i.e. I'm not stopping each time I have gone through the kick + snare pattern.
Apologies for taking up your time...
I think this is the limitation of the single audio/simple instrument track and MIDI. As far as I can tell, you can use "Comping" for MIDI or Audio, which would do what you are looking to do, but you would have to have a separate scratch track, or multiple audio tracks. To use instrument tracks only I believe you have to use SOS and have to stop after each take to move the take to the next lane so that the take can be heard with the previous take. The other option I guess might be to set up two instances of session drummer - one for your scratch track which would have the initial beat - kick snare, whatever. Then another instance of session drummer to comp your individual takes while playing the scratch track beat. Sorry as I read this thread I realize this is likely what you were saying in the first place. LOL.
Brando
Cakewalk, Studio One Pro, Reaper Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL ASUS Prime Z370-A LGA1151, 32GB DDR4, Intel 8700K i7, 500 GB SSD, 3 x 1TB HDD, Windows 10 Pro 64
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3dmus
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Re: MIDI loop recording - workflow question
2013/10/05 10:22:41
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:-) OK - it's not me going mad then!! It all makes sense I suppose. Thx for your help Brando.
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