MIDI parasites on Sonar

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Tumnus
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2018/04/15 15:18:06 (permalink)

MIDI parasites on Sonar

Hi,

When I play keyboards/MIDI on Sonar (the one given by Bandlab), I got some little parasites, like little "clips".
I was trying to post a link here but it seems not possible.

I thought it was related to distortion, but I cannot see any level warning in the DAW or on the sound card output (Babyface Pro).
The issue can occur:
- with Arturia keystep and Alesis Q49 as well
- with Motu Ethno VST and native Sonar synth TTS-1
- monitoring headphones and basic ones
- during recording and after export/bounce

Do you know how I can fix it?
Thank you for your help.
#1

18 Replies Related Threads

    abacab
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/04/15 22:12:23 (permalink)
    Parasites?  Need more info, as that is not a common term for a MIDI issue.
     
    Are you recording MIDI or audio?
     

    DAW: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Sonar Platinum, and others ...  Other: AIR AIEP; Akai VIP; BIAB; Fathom; Ignite; iZotope Iris 2; Miroslav; Notion; Overture; SampleTank 3; SynthMaster; Syntronik; Waves  OS: Win10 Pro x64 1709  System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Fender P-Bass

    #2
    Tumnus
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/04/16 18:54:10 (permalink)
    Hi abacab,
    I am recording MIDI.
    It is like "pop" when you sing without (anti)pop filter.
    Of course it is not the same issue, since it is MIDI not audio, but it is the same noise.
    Never got this issue before.
    The excerpt to hear them: https://clyp.it/mi20kd2r
    (from 0:06)
    That issue may be fixed easily, but I cannot find out.
    Thanks.
    post edited by Tumnus - 2018/04/16 21:32:23
    #3
    James Argo
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/04/19 02:25:18 (permalink)
    Preferences --> MIDI --> Playback and recording :
     
    on Record, set the number of buffers to at least 128. Or try 256.
     
    on Playback, set Prepare using : 256 milliseconds buffers.
     
    Hope it helps.

    Cakewalk by BandLab!
    #4
    Tumnus
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/04/21 16:21:41 (permalink)
    Hi James Argo,
    Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately it does not work on my side.
    It also seems not possible to set 256 on record.
     
    Parasites occur when I am holding a MIDI note more than 4-5 seconds.
    The softer I play, the lower the parasites are (as if it were an "effect").
    Same parasites when writing notes on the staff and then playing them.
    Hope those elements give a clue to someone here...
     
    The same excerpt: https://clyp.it/mi20kd2r
    #5
    abacab
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/04/22 23:33:52 (permalink)
    As a test, increase the audio buffer size on your audio interface and see if that helps.  I heard static at regular intervals in your sample.
     
    Also make sure that you are using the ASIO audio device type that your Babyface Pro supports.
     
    You may also want to try Resplendence LatencyMon to check if a driver is causing excessive DPC latency that is interfering with real-time audio on your computer.  http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
     
    Here are some other PC optimization guides you may want to review. https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/mac-pc-optimization/

    DAW: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Sonar Platinum, and others ...  Other: AIR AIEP; Akai VIP; BIAB; Fathom; Ignite; iZotope Iris 2; Miroslav; Notion; Overture; SampleTank 3; SynthMaster; Syntronik; Waves  OS: Win10 Pro x64 1709  System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Fender P-Bass

    #6
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/04/24 03:37:18 (permalink)
    You can also try temporarily bypassing all effects processing, by hitting the letter 'E' on your computer keyboard, which toggles effects in the project off/on.  If the issue goes away with the effects off, then one or more effects are possibly causing an issue.
     
    For whatever the worth, I run VERY stable with an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 samples, with 24-bit recording, at 48k Sample Rate, when tracking.  I COULD go with a smaller ASIO Buffer Size, but I really don't have any latency issues and I also never have any audio hiccups or dropouts or garbling - it doesn't make anything work too hard, and it just always works.  When changing over from recording to mixing, I bump up the ASIO Buffer Size to either 1024 or 2048, to give myself room for the more robust effects that need it, since latency is no longer an issue at that point in the work flow.
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    #7
    AT
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/05/03 21:08:02 (permalink)
    MIDI Parasites?  Weren't they an industrial band in the 80s?
    #8
    soens
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/05/04 19:03:09 (permalink)
    As suggested, sounds like audio settings need adjustment.
    #9
    Tumnus
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/05/20 14:08:34 (permalink)
    Hi,

    Thank you all for your replies, but I am still completely l.o.s.t.
    I updated the "firmware" & the driver of the Babyface Pro, changed the buffer parameters (feel like finding out combinations for a safe), checked the possible effects (hitting E, as said by Robert_e_bone), but nothing changed.

    3 notes:
    - My keyboard is USB plugged into the computer (as power supply), and not directly into the BabyFace Pro. Maybe that is the part of the problem. What do you think? I may get a power adaptater for my keyboard this week.
    - I bounced a track some weeks ago (an only audio track without MIDI), and I got an unexpected parasite, looking like a static, I do not really know. So I guess the improper settings may not only concern MIDI.
    - I got specific settings for the BabyFace Pro (notably Buffer size / latency of 1024 samples). Do I need to take them into account in order to set the DAW settings properly?

    Thank you for your help.

    abacab

    Also make sure that you are using the ASIO audio device type that your Babyface Pro supports.



    Do you know how I can check that?
    Thanks.




    #10
    Wookiee
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/05/24 10:46:06 (permalink)
    You can post screen captures by using a picture hosting service.

    Perhaps some more details of your CPU and RAM. sizes and OS would assist along with your ASIO buffers and latency round trip details.

    To increase the MIDI Prepare buffer you need to open preferences (P) MIDI > Playback and Recording > Playback Heading. The change the box marked Prepare Using NNN Millisecond Buffers.  I would recommend setting this to 500.

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    #11
    Tumnus
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/05/26 14:34:51 (permalink)
    Hi Wookiee,
     
    -I updated the "Prepare Using ... Millisecond Buffers" field to 500, but I still got the same parasites.
    -Just in case, I plugged directly the keyboard to the Babyface Pro with MIDI cables, but nothing changed.
    -LatencyMon seems to have not detected any trouble.
    -Bug not reproducible with Cakewalk Sonar LE + Ediroal UA-25 soundcard, on an old computer.
    -Parasites seem to occur far more easily with Motu Ethno VST than with Cakewalk native ones (but I have to check again with other VST and sounds).
     
    My system:
    Intel Core i7-7700 CPU @
    3.60GHz 3.60 GHz
    RAM: 16,0 Go
    64-bit

    Please find there some of my parameters:
    -Fireface USB settings: https://ibb.co/dxPCJ8
    -Cakewalk Audio driver settings: https://ibb.co/h6z4y8
    -Cakewalk File Audio settings: https://ibb.co/kiUbBT
    -Cakewalk MIDI Playback and Running: https://ibb.co/hj055o
    Let me know if you need more of them.


    Thanks a lot.
    post edited by Tumnus - 2018/05/27 15:43:29
    #12
    Wookiee
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/05/29 16:30:03 (permalink)
    Are these clicks and pops (parasites) with all VSTi's?

    Do you have access to a second Hard Drive for Audio.  Using just one Disk is very stressful for audio.

    Is this PC a Laptop or a Desktop?

    Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
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    #13
    Tumnus
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/07/08 21:53:46 (permalink)
    Wookiee
    Are these clicks and pops (parasites) with all VSTi's?

    Do you have access to a second Hard Drive for Audio.  Using just one Disk is very stressful for audio.

    Is this PC a Laptop or a Desktop?




    Thank you for your message.
    - The static sounds occur on some presets of the Motu Ethno Music VST. I somehow managed to reproduce the bug with a native VST in Sonar (TTS-1 synth) but that seems no longer the case (I may try again later).
    - I only use a single drive, as I always have.
    - It is a PC Desktop.
     
    These past few weeks I finally completed one track using some presets of the Motu VST, avoiding those generating static sound.
    I will work this way to complete my project and will update this topic if I got more clues with other significant VST.
     
    #14
    Wookiee
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/08/02 11:02:21 (permalink)
    Thank for updating us, I would recommended adding another drive for audio this will reduce the risk of introducing artefacts as the disk will only be doing one job.  In a single disk environment a single disk has a lot of work to do.

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    #15
    abacab
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/08/02 15:55:49 (permalink)
    Just looked at the specs for that MOTU Ethno plugin, and I would definitely move that 21GB sample library to a fast dedicated drive.  http://motu.com/products/software/ethno/specs.html
     
    Ethno provides disk streaming per part, along with unlimited parts and unlimited polyphony.
     
    "Disk streaming (per part) conserves RAM resources and quickens load times."

    DAW: Cakewalk by Bandlab; Sonar Platinum, and others ...  Other: AIR AIEP; Akai VIP; BIAB; Fathom; Ignite; iZotope Iris 2; Miroslav; Notion; Overture; SampleTank 3; SynthMaster; Syntronik; Waves  OS: Win10 Pro x64 1709  System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Fender P-Bass

    #16
    JonD
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/08/12 16:39:17 (permalink)
    Are you actually seeing these extra MIDI events displayed anywhere (Piano roll, event view)?  If not, they really have nothing to do with MIDI, and are just audio artifacts related to some yet-unidentified problem, right?

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    #17
    Tumnus
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/10/01 20:50:04 (permalink)
    Thank you all for your replies.
    These past months I handled the MIDI Ethno presets that work properly (an organ and a more aerial keyboard). I did not try again the other ones that cause parasites.
     
    @Wookie & abacab: it is strange because this VST worked properly with my old computer, less effective, and including one single drive too. The issue occurs with my brand new environment. I guess I have to check more on Motu's side.
     
    @JonD: it is parasites/artefacts (as you can hear here). It is not an event I can see in Piano roll or events list.
     
    -----------
     
    Nevertheless, I got recently a new issue, unfortunate and compromising my last work... It is audio only, not MIDI.
    I can open a new thread if needed (cos the title of this one is now misleading).
     
    You can hear the new parasite/artefact here: https://clyp.it/4xxiq0eg (there are other ones throughout the track...)
    - The context is: I bounced guitar exported files (I plugged directly the guitar in the BabyFace Pro for the recording). I cannot hear any trouble. But once mixed/mastered by a professional sound engineer, I got parasites/artefacts.
    - My question is: Did I forget/miss something in the settings? How is it possible to get these parasites although I did not hear any issue in the exported file? Maybe it is related to mp3 compression, but there is still an issue somewhere...
     
    I have been working a lot on that song (and my sound engineer too), so it is really frustrating cos I do not know where it comes from. This issue is far more important than the MIDI one.
     
    Thanks a lot for your help.
     
    #18
    Wookiee
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    Re: MIDI parasites on Sonar 2018/10/06 11:19:38 (permalink)
    An MP3 is not a good example because certain things are lost in the compression process.  MP3 not only compresses the audio it also removes stuff it thinks you can not hear.  A wave file would be better and a wave we can download to analyse.
     

    Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.
    Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
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    #19
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