MIDI pitch change

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MorganT
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2012/10/27 10:02:53 (permalink)

MIDI pitch change

Playing back a certain project, if I start mid-stream at certain points a MIDI track is changing pitch upward by one full step (2 semitones).  If I go further back in the project and start play, then it plays properly. It is only at a few points in the project this occurs.  The notes are mapped out properly -- I've checked them in Event List and Note Properties in PRV.  There are no other notes showing on the midi channel that might be acting as a trigger, other than the desired note.
 
This is a midi channel going to bass synth (Guitar Rig Skobee PreBass), then to my bass instrument track.  Never had this happen, baffled as to what's triggering the pitch change.  I don't think my input keyboard could be affecting this, but the pitch wheel is physically centered; and no controllers are showing for the pitch wheel in this section of the track.

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    tacman7
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/27 10:55:03 (permalink)
    Have you checked the notes in the effected sections?

    Just wondering if they have been accidentally transposed when you were doing something else may be...

    So you can watch it in piano roll view and see the same note sounding different in certain sections?

    Never seen it myself.


    #2
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/27 12:55:23 (permalink)
    Check your Event List for any extraneous CC's

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    swamptooth
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/27 23:32:02 (permalink)

     
    Arvid H. Peterson
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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/28 02:50:26 (permalink)
    Any pitch markers inserted on the project?
    #5
    Skyline_UK
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/28 04:47:32 (permalink)
    If it's not a Note change it can sound like that if there's a Wheel change event or similar command affecting pitch.  View the event list again and unitick Notes to see if there are any remaining messages of that variety. 

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    #6
    MorganT
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/28 16:42:12 (permalink)
    I cannot find anything in the event list that looks inappropriate, nothing outside of the notes being played .  Swamptooth, your link / comment is exactly what I thought at first -- perhaps I had re-tuned the synth so it was modulating upward, but it was still set to standard tune.  The link indicates a problem with playing incorrect notes after modulating to an alternate tuning, which I am not doing -- but I thought perhaps it was a bug in the Native Instruments software.  So I replaced the synth with SI Bass.  At first it played OK, so I thought that solved it.  I reloaded the NI Skarbee bass and verified the same problem.  THen I reloaded the SI Bass, but this time it occurred with SI bass too, so it seems to be something in the midi.

    I checked pitch on the keyboard and it seems to be OK, it is what is playing that gets off.

    Again, what seems weird -- if I stop the song before vs 2 or the bridge, then resume play from that point, THAT is when it occurs.  If I play from the beginning of the track, it does not change pitch.

    Baffled.  And frustrated!

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    slartabartfast
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/28 16:52:10 (permalink)
    if I stop the song before vs 2 or the bridge, then resume play from that point, THAT is when it occurs.  If I play from the beginning of the track, it does not change pitch.



    That suggests that if you find any maverick events, control codes or pitch changes they will be found earlier than when the pitch change occurs i.e. skipping the early part of the file misses a controller that produces the correct pitch.
    #8
    swamptooth
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/28 18:35:53 (permalink)
    try running the midi filter on it and stripping everything but notes. insert a second audio track with input from the synth so you can a/b compare them.  then try inserting a whole new instance of the synth with the midi line and a/b that with the original.

    does scarbee have an lfo that's going on??  is there an lfo or autowah or psyche delay in your guitar rig setup??? those might be sync'd to cause pitch changes.  

     
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    soens
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/28 18:51:00 (permalink)
    That suggests that if you find any maverick events, control codes or pitch changes they will be found earlier than when the pitch change occurs i.e. skipping the early part of the file misses a controller that produces the correct pitch.
     
    IOW, if you stop playback after a pitchbed controller but before a zero controller, then move the Time Line to another location and play, the notes will sound off because they are still affected by the pitchbend controller.
     
    To play MIDI notes properly the Time Line has to pass a zero controller first. This resets things to proper pitch.
     
    This aggravates me constantly as I'm editing different parts so I find myself placing zero controllers all over the place to fix it.
     
     
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    swamptooth
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/28 19:03:05 (permalink)
    LOL! 666!!!

     
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    #11
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/29 04:42:26 (permalink)
    This aggravates me constantly as I'm editing different parts so I find myself placing zero controllers all over the place to fix it.


    Very true. What's even worse is when doing orchestral mockups with key switched articulations.

    I'm having to put "dummy" switches all over the place just to get the correct sounds to play when playback is initiated at any point in the timeline other than 01:01:000

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    swamptooth
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/29 05:31:16 (permalink)
    @BJ
    One of the key things with keyswitches is to have separate midi tracks that represent the various switches for the sake of consistent playback as well as notation printing.  The other thing i do is add a meter change at the start of the file - set to either 1/8 or 1/4 and leave that for a bar to assign the initial keyswitches then change the meter to first assigned to the project.  

     
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    Glyn Barnes
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/29 06:32:25 (permalink)
    At the risk of hijacking the thread. Is anyone using Drum maps for key switch tracks. I always intend setting it up.

    Having a "look back" option for controler data and key switches has been discussed in the past. I don't recall if anyone put in a feature request but it would be a nice feature to have.

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    MorganT
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/29 23:11:37 (permalink)
    You guys are geniuses!  Went back through with all you'd noted, found a few previous floating pitch bends that had not been zero'd back out.  So I guess it had floated off from there.  I put a zero pitch bend controller in after each of the offending events, and it seems to have fixed it.

    What I don't understand -- prior to correcting this, when I closed the project then re-opened it, moved NOW time to mid-project and started from one of the mid-track points without passing any pitch bend, I was still getting the errant pitch.  Shouldn't it have started playing at that point without acknowledging a pitch bend prior in the midi track that it had not actually played?  Or does the audio engine look retrospectively and play as if everything prior had actually been played?

    Thanks for the help!!

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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/30 02:19:59 (permalink)
    Have a look in Preferences-->Project--->MIDI--->Other options and uncheck "Patch/Controller Searchback Before Play Starts"

    Sonar will then ignore any prior controllers, but you may end up with some strange patches playing depending on your setup and the project.
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/30 05:08:37 (permalink)
    swamptooth


    @BJ
    One of the key things with keyswitches is to have separate midi tracks that represent the various switches for the sake of consistent playback as well as notation printing.  The other thing i do is add a meter change at the start of the file - set to either 1/8 or 1/4 and leave that for a bar to assign the initial keyswitches then change the meter to first assigned to the project.  


    swamp - yep, all my keyswitch data is actually contained within a drum map which lives on the top row of the PRV. The 2nd row is for normal note data, 3rd row for velocity & 4th row for CC11 data

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/30 05:10:04 (permalink)
    Glyn Barnes


    At the risk of hijacking the thread. Is anyone using Drum maps for key switch tracks. I always intend setting it up.

    Having a "look back" option for controler data and key switches has been discussed in the past. I don't recall if anyone put in a feature request but it would be a nice feature to have.


    Yes! See my post above.

    Using Drum Maps for keyswitch data and the normal PRV for note data makes it completely obvious what you're dealing with

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    swamptooth
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/30 05:42:38 (permalink)
    Yeah and the cool thing about drum maps is that one big map can go to multiple synths which is awesome!

     
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    MorganT
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    Re:MIDI pitch change 2012/10/30 22:05:18 (permalink)
    Karl -- thanks, that makes sense now.  Not understanding how things work creates a lot of problems -- that seem foolish once I have the understanding...

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