MIDI timestretching/expanding - how?

Hi,
 
It's a basic question, but maybe I'm blind today or too lazy to get thru manual... How to do timestretching/expnding of MIDI clip?
 
I have some clips, which are 4,8, 16 bars long, but they're recorded not in tempo of the project.....
 
In a fact I try to get "preview" patterns out of one instrument and I haven't found any other way than live recording. But then I have to expand or stretch them to fit the tepo....
 
How?
 
Thanks in advance for your help,
 
A

it's not as easy - I want to import some "preveiew" presets from Triton, unfortunatelly they don't want to get sync with Sonar.
So I can record phrase, but it won't be in the tempo of sonar.
What next?

yes, but I have rack version without sequencer.
I can only dump arpeggio paterns as a SysEx, or play thru "sound preview", but in this case synth plays at its own tempo - independent to host tempo.

It's strange that Sonar has no "MIDI stretch/expand" tool....
When I try to spped up or slown down tempo of project - it affects MIDI playing too.
How to make it INDEPENDENT to find right tempo?
Even clip looping is useless...

I remember ACID has abilities to change tempo without changing speed of playing material if material wasn't loops. But I'm not sure....

Any ideas how to do it in Sonar?

Assuming the first event in the clip is at 1:01:000, just count out to the last event in the measure, set the Now time at the beginning of that note, and and use Set Measure/Beat At Now to tell SONAR what measure and beat that should be. SONAR will adjust the project tempo to align the timeline at that point. If the tempo is steady, everything else should line up as well.

X1 changed all the shortcuts for setting Now = From, and Set Measure/Beat At Now, and I changed them back, so I can't tell you off the top of my head what they are now.


EDIT: If the clip doesn't start at 1:01:000 (e.g. it starts with a pick-up note at 1:04:480), you'll have to start by sliding it around to align the first event with the corresponding beat in the timeline, and Set that point with SM/BAN, then Set the ending event, and edit the initial tempo at 1:01:000 to match what SONAR inserted at the first Set point. Also, note that SM/BAN uses fractional beats, not ticks, so 1:04:480 is Measure 1, Beat 4.5.

stonehedge - Yes, I can do this and I think it's only way - or one of two ways (second one is this described by brundlefly - even if I don't understand all of he wrote).

I was trying to record "sound preview", but it's rather different than ARPeggio - you have phrases, and those phrases are played with "I-dunno" tempo (no tempo on LCD).

But OK, thanks guys, I will try to do something in a while.

Kalle Rantaaho ,
"sound preview" - you think about audio, but - maybe I made myself not so clear:
- Triton plays "prev" from internal MIDI patterns (different than arpeggiators), and it's easy to send the notes to MIDI OUT (to DAW).
But it's impossible to set Triton to play those patterns in sync with DAW. Triton plays patterns, but doesn't send MIDI Clock during playing (concerns those "review patterns" only).

I cant dump them as MIDI - I can dump them as SysEx - so it doesn't help.....

Let's go back to the topic:
I have few MIDI phrases in UNKNOWN TEMPO - how to expand/stretch them to the PROJECT TEMPO???

treat it like - playing/recording MIDI with DIFFERENT TEMPO than DAW. Quantisation won't help - imagine quantising 147bpm to 120bpm ;) All I can do is to record phrase, and - what I want to do is - to expand/stretch to project tempo

provided you already know the length in bars and the original tempo of the midi you are recording

I think this is the OP's challenge. He's recording canned sequences and/or arpeggios from a Triton Rack that does not have an onboard sequencer, so he doesn't have the tempo information for everything.

What's interesting to me is that it's outputting MIDI at all. I don't think any of my rack or keyboard synths send MIDI when they're playing back sequences from ROM.

adrian4u


Kalle Rantaaho ,
"sound preview" - you think about audio, but - maybe I made myself not so clear:
- Triton plays "prev" from internal MIDI patterns (different than arpeggiators), and it's easy to send the notes to MIDI OUT (to DAW).
But it's impossible to set Triton to play those patterns in sync with DAW. Triton plays patterns, but doesn't send MIDI Clock during playing (concerns those "review patterns" only).

I cant dump them as MIDI - I can dump them as SysEx - so it doesn't help.....

Let's go back to the topic:
I have few MIDI phrases in UNKNOWN TEMPO - how to expand/stretch them to the PROJECT TEMPO???

You got it wrong with MIDI Clock, you need to send Clock to the Triton, not the other way round. It most probably will sync to that if you set it to RECEIVE Clock. Anyway, the way to do it precisely with already recorded phrases is Process>Fit to time. It is easy and works like a charm.

brundlefly

 

What's interesting to me is that it's outputting MIDI at all. I don't think any of my rack or keyboard synths send MIDI when they're playing back sequences from ROM.

My Emu MP7 outputs all the preset audition sequences if you choose to do so, either at internal tempo or at external clock. It also resets them when receiveng external Start/Stop, which makes it very easy to record them. 

JoseC.

brundlefly

 

What's interesting to me is that it's outputting MIDI at all. I don't think any of my rack or keyboard synths send MIDI when they're playing back sequences from ROM.

My Emu MP7 outputs all the preset audition sequences if you choose to do so, either at internal tempo or at external clock. It also resets them when receiveng external Start/Stop, which makes it very easy to record them. 

Right, but the MP7 has an onboard sequencer. What I'm saying is most ROM-based synths don't send MIDI when playing demo sequences or built-in arpeggiator patterns.


 

brundlefly

JoseC.

brundlefly

What's interesting to me is that it's outputting MIDI at all. I don't think any of my rack or keyboard synths send MIDI when they're playing back sequences from ROM.

My Emu MP7 outputs all the preset audition sequences if you choose to do so, either at internal tempo or at external clock. It also resets them when receiveng external Start/Stop, which makes it very easy to record them. 

Right, but the MP7 has an onboard sequencer. What I'm saying is most ROM-based synths don't send MIDI when playing demo sequences or built-in arpeggiator patterns.

Not that it is important at all for the thread topic, but Emu rack synths DO send MIDI when playing demo sequences and arpeggiator patterns. It is true that the Emu MP7 has an onboard sequencer, too, but its sequencerless rack cousins will do the same.

brundlefly

stonehedge
That's what I said in post 7

Make that post #8, and un-indent (outdent?) your response to get it out of the quoted part.

Sorry I'm a little too fast on the trigger today. Hope this one works right

JoseC.

brundlefly

JoseC.

brundlefly

What's interesting to me is that it's outputting MIDI at all. I don't think any of my rack or keyboard synths send MIDI when they're playing back sequences from ROM.

My Emu MP7 outputs all the preset audition sequences if you choose to do so, either at internal tempo or at external clock. It also resets them when receiveng external Start/Stop, which makes it very easy to record them. 

Right, but the MP7 has an onboard sequencer. What I'm saying is most ROM-based synths don't send MIDI when playing demo sequences or built-in arpeggiator patterns.

Not that it is important at all for the thread topic, but Emu rack synths DO send MIDI when playing demo sequences and arpeggiator patterns. It is true that the Emu MP7 has an onboard sequencer, too, but its sequencerless rack cousins will do the same.

I agree this is not really important (or germane to the original question), but I double-checked, and my E-MU UltraProteus does not send MIDI out when playing its demos.  Maybe newer ones do.