MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad

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gmp
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2017/11/12 17:36:37 (permalink)

MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad

I've done extensive testing and have found the new AVB Ultralie firmware 1.2.9 which came out June 2017 causes permanently embedded crackles in a wav file, even though there are no crackles heard during recording. Anyone who has this firmware I'd suggest to pay close attention to see if it happens. It always happens on the first audio recording when you open a CWP file. After that every recording will have the same crackles until you close that file and reopen it. Then it'll be fine.
 
I have another post where I documented all of this and the long process it took me to finally find the culprit.   http://forum.cakewalk.com...670740-p2.aspx#3681525
 
The purpose of this post to to alert others and to let me know if you have the same problem, so we can get it fixed. If you're not having the problem, I certainly want to know also in case it's system dependent. This will help MOTU in fixing it.
 
Here's a test you can do to find out if your system is afflicted.
 
Open a CWP file. Record 1 sec or so of audio and listen to it. Then close the CWP and reopen it. Keep doing the same thing at least 25x. In my testing the bad crackles happened sometimes on the very first recording, other times on #8 or as high as #22. If you get crackles go ahead and record one or more just to be sure it crackles every time

Gerry Peters
Midi Magic Studio
http://gprecordingstudio.com/
Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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    fireberd
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2017/11/12 18:03:31 (permalink)
    There is an older thread on the gearslutz forum.  In that thread, "loopy" notes he had similar problems and how he eventually solved it.  May or may not apply to your specific problem, but look at it anyway.
     
    https://www.gearslutz.com...10-problems-works.html

    "GCSG Productions"
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    #2
    gmp
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2017/11/13 06:57:33 (permalink)
    fireberd
    There is an older thread on the gearslutz forum.  In that thread, "loopy" notes he had similar problems and how he eventually solved it.  May or may not apply to your specific problem, but look at it anyway.
     
    https://www.gearslutz.com...10-problems-works.html



     
    Were you referring to this statement by Loopy?
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    there are some other core parking settings and running the program "Park Control" showed that while my cores had parking disabled, I did have something called "Free Scaling DC" at 5 percent....
    Disabled it and BINGO.
    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
    I've never heard of core parking  and wonder if any one using Plat has tried this
    .

    Gerry Peters
    Midi Magic Studio
    http://gprecordingstudio.com/
    Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
    #3
    fireberd
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2017/11/13 11:35:53 (permalink)
    I've seen "core parking" (disabling that) many times on recording forums.  Its something to consider.

    "GCSG Productions"
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    #4
    msorrels
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2017/11/13 12:03:12 (permalink)
    Free Scaling DC only applies to machines running on batteries (DC) which generally means laptops.  Only a factor if you are using a laptop.  The utility app pointed to by that thread is pretty nice though and if you are on a laptop turning Free Scaling DC off would be very smart (though it will make the laptop consume more battery power).

    -Matt
     
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    gmp
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2017/11/13 17:20:01 (permalink)
    fireberd
    I've seen "core parking" (disabling that) many times on recording forums.  Its something to consider.




    I read some about it and it seems to mention power consuming and heat. These are non-issues for me with my desktop DAW. Even though I've solved my serious embedded crackles in wav files, I've always have gotten the fleeting pop, glitch, crackle on playback, mostly with a light load of FX and tracks.
     
    If disabling core parking would make that better. I can try it. I have my power management set for high performance along with the usual optimization techniques recommended by DAW users. I've never seen core parking ever mentioned in these optimizations. I'm wondering if I'm really not a good candidate for that using Platinum. All I care about is  a good stable reliable predictable DAW. Jim Roseberry who built my PC has never mentioned it. 

    Gerry Peters
    Midi Magic Studio
    http://gprecordingstudio.com/
    Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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    fireberd
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2017/11/13 18:15:56 (permalink)
    Pops, clicks, stuttering, etc has been an issue for many, dating back to Windows 7.  It happens on the basic windows PC sound.  There are many possibilities and there is no "one fix" for it, each case has to be handled individually.  Sound (devices) are always assigned a shared IRQ (Interrupt) with another device, and Windows assigns the lower priority to sound.  Thus the shared higher priority device, for example, can cause sound issues.  Wi-Fi is a known cause of sound problems.  
     
    As you have a custom built DAW PC, it was probably set up by Jim for best DAW performance before you got it and no other "tweaking" was needed.   I built my own DAW PC and the only "tweaking" I've done is set the power plan for High Performance and the PC is set to never "sleep".  I also do not use the Win 10 fast startup.   

    "GCSG Productions"
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    ASUS Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
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    fireberd
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2017/11/14 14:21:50 (permalink)
    No one else, apparently, on this forum has the problem.  
    Suggest you post on the www.gearslutz.com forum, a general recording forum.  May get an answer or more help there.

    "GCSG Productions"
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    ASUS Maximus VIII Hero M/B, i7 6700K CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD and conventional hard drives, Win 10 Pro and Win 10 Pro Insider Pre-Release
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    #8
    PJH
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2017/11/14 14:51:23 (permalink)
    fireberd
    No one else, apparently, on this forum has the problem.  
    Suggest you post on the www.gearslutz.com forum, a general recording forum.  May get an answer or more help there.


    I have the same problem. There are a few others who have reported the same thing too.
     
    #9
    PJH
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2017/11/15 15:31:58 (permalink)
    gmp
    I've done extensive testing and have found the new AVB Ultralie firmware 1.2.9 which came out June 2017 causes permanently embedded crackles in a wav file, even though there are no crackles heard during recording. Anyone who has this firmware I'd suggest to pay close attention to see if it happens. It always happens on the first audio recording when you open a CWP file. After that every recording will have the same crackles until you close that file and reopen it. Then it'll be fine.

    I have another post where I documented all of this and the long process it took me to finally find the culprit.   http://forum.cakewalk.com...670740-p2.aspx#3681525

    The purpose of this post to to alert others and to let me know if you have the same problem, so we can get it fixed. If you're not having the problem, I certainly want to know also in case it's system dependent. This will help MOTU in fixing it.

    Here's a test you can do to find out if your system is afflicted.

    Open a CWP file. Record 1 sec or so of audio and listen to it. Then close the CWP and reopen it. Keep doing the same thing at least 25x. In my testing the bad crackles happened sometimes on the very first recording, other times on #8 or as high as #22. If you get crackles go ahead and record one or more just to be sure it crackles every time



    Well I can now state without any doubt I agree with Gerry. I was experiencing dropouts, crackles, no audio etc with the latest firmware. This happened on a fairly regular basis with the crackles occurring very often. Adjusting settings didn't make any difference.
     
    I eventually rolled back to an earlier firmware version and have been recording, mixing and playing back all day with not a single dropout, crackle or complete loss of audio.
     
    I'll be staying with this setup until MOTU either fixes it or at least acknowledges that there is a problem.
     
    Thanks for the help, Gerry!
     
    Cheers
     
    Peter.  
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    Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2017/11/18 23:03:47 (permalink)
    Hi Gerry,
    I haven't had issues lately and was pretty happy with my setup but I completely recabled my entire Control Room and did a number of updates. Hence i need to thourougly test everything before going into production mode ...

    Do I understand the problem correctly that when you get crackles you get it in the first few seconds of the first recording after opening Sonar? If it does not happen there, it doesn't crackle later either?

    GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER
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    #11
    gmp
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2017/11/18 23:20:29 (permalink)
    Rob[atSound-Rehab]
    Hi Gerry, 
    I haven't had issues lately and was pretty happy with my setup but I completely recabled my entire Control Room and did a number of updates. Hence i need to thourougly test everything before going into production mode ...

    Do I understand the problem correctly that when you get crackles you get it in the first few seconds of the first recording after opening Sonar? If it does not happen there, it doesn't crackle later either?



    Yes. This is different from the intermittent playback crackles we've discussed before. This is far worse, because you can be recording a vocal which sounds great, then to find it's filled with constant crackles. If you open a CWP file and record for 1 sec and it doesn't crackle then it won't all of a sudden start as long as you don’t close and reopen file. 
     
    You don't have to close Sonar or reboot, just open a new CWP or even the same one and you can then get crackles. It's like a faulty initialization of the file on opening it. Once you get this sort of crackle, every single recording after that will crackle until you close and reopen the file.
     
    If you haven’t installed the new firmware, I’d caution you on even trying it, because as someone else posted the AVB is quirky about rolling back the firmware, I experiences the same nightmare. Right now I’m using the latest Oct 2017 software and the previous firmware Sept 2016. I still get the intermittent crackle, pop, or glitch in playback, but I can deal with that. It goes away

    Gerry Peters
    Midi Magic Studio
    http://gprecordingstudio.com/
    Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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    Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2017/11/19 08:09:46 (permalink)
    Thanks for the detailed info. I will keep a close eye on this during my test phase today and tomorrow.
     
    I'm on the latest firmware and actually intend to stay there (fingers crossed) as MOTU introduced some nice features when you have several units network via AVB (e.g. like channel name forwarding which makes handling large setups much easier).
     
    BTW, we might have discussed that before but does it also happen with all other USB devices unplugged except for the MOTU??? The reason I bring this up again is that I repeatedly have problems with the Roland A-Pro MIDI controller which is connected via USB. Although working perfectly by itself it has some really negative influence on other devices e.g. I could not launch USB control software of other devices while having the A-Pro on until I moved that to a different port on the main controller ... and I also remember getting crackles in the MOTU recordings due to the A-Pro being switched on and just sitting there idle. I discovered this by pure coincidence but back then it was fully reproducible. (Hence I will part with this controller pretty soon ...)

    GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER
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    #13
    gmp
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2017/11/19 18:13:41 (permalink)
    Rob[atSound-Rehab]
    Thanks for the detailed info. I will keep a close eye on this during my test phase today and tomorrow.
     
    I'm on the latest firmware and actually intend to stay there (fingers crossed) as MOTU introduced some nice features when you have several units network via AVB (e.g. like channel name forwarding which makes handling large setups much easier).
     
    BTW, we might have discussed that before but does it also happen with all other USB devices unplugged except for the MOTU??? The reason I bring this up again is that I repeatedly have problems with the Roland A-Pro MIDI controller which is connected via USB. Although working perfectly by itself it has some really negative influence on other devices e.g. I could not launch USB control software of other devices while having the A-Pro on until I moved that to a different port on the main controller ... and I also remember getting crackles in the MOTU recordings due to the A-Pro being switched on and just sitting there idle. I discovered this by pure coincidence but back then it was fully reproducible. (Hence I will part with this controller pretty soon ...)




    You definitely need to do the crackles test I put in my first post. If you use Alt-F you can close and reopen a file in about 5 sec, no need to reboot Sonar. It'll take about 5 or 10 min to fully test it. If it passes that test use it.
     
    I did try lots of USB variations and even bought a USB hub which ties up 1 USB 2.0 slot. I have 9 USB devices, 7 are on the hub and the AVB is in a 2.0 slot (I've tried different ones) and a midi interface used only for Studiomix automation is in a 2.0 slot. I plug my backup HD's i only at the end of the day for backups and always disconnect it while using Sonar. 
     
    Keep me posted!
     

     

    Gerry Peters
    Midi Magic Studio
    http://gprecordingstudio.com/
    Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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    gmp
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2018/04/29 05:02:40 (permalink)
    For the last 5 months I've used the old firmware from Sept 2016 with no crackles, like I described in the first post.
     
     I started using CbB about 3 weeks ago with no problems. Today I upgraded to the latest AVB software and new firmware. I did my usual test as outlined above and noticed the crackle problem is still there. I then reverted back to the old firmware and left the software as the latest and the crackles went away. 

    After all this time I'm surprised that MOTU has still dropped the ball on this issue. Has anyone else noticed this problem or found a solution?

    Gerry Peters
    Midi Magic Studio
    http://gprecordingstudio.com/
    Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
    #15
    gmp
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2018/08/11 03:45:35 (permalink)
    The problem is finally fixed after I installed the newest firmware and software
    MOTU Pro Audio Installer 4.0 (76926), MOTU AVB 1.3.4+617 for UltraLite AVB and Stage-B16
     
    I'm using CbB 2018.07 with all Win updates current

    Gerry Peters
    Midi Magic Studio
    http://gprecordingstudio.com/
    Album Productions and Songwriter Resources
    Cakewalk By Bandlab, Platinum 64 + 32 bit, Studiocat AsRock Z97 motherboard, Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz, RAM 16GB DDR3/1600, Windows 10 Pro all updates including optional, MOTU AVB Ultralite sound card/Midi interface/Dig mixer, onboard Video HD4600. Midisport 2x2 midi interface, Vienna Instruments, Ivory II piano, Komplete 9, Superior drummer. 5 HD's - OS drive 250GB SSD, Samples drive 1 500GB SSD,  3 data HDs - total of 6.5T
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    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2018/08/11 12:45:17 (permalink)
    Hi Gerry,
     
    Glad this issue is resolved.
    You might want to change the thread title... so folks know it's been resolved (those that don't read thru the entire thread).

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #17
    Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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    Re: MOTU AVB Ultralite - Newest firmware is bad 2018/08/22 07:33:18 (permalink)
    gmp
    The problem is finally fixed after I installed the newest firmware and software
    MOTU Pro Audio Installer 4.0 (76926), MOTU AVB 1.3.4+617 for UltraLite AVB and Stage-B16
     
    I'm using CbB 2018.07 with all Win updates current




    Thanks for the update, Gerry!
    I had an eye on that over the entire year but did not run into it with the MOTU 1248 AVBs which I mostly use (it's different hardware/firmware although probably similar inside to a large extent)

    GOOD TUNES LAST FOREVER
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    Audio-Interface: 2x MOTU 1248 AVB, Focusrite OctoPre, (Roland Octa-Capture)   Control-Surface: VS-700C 
    VSTi: WAVES, NI K10u, FabFilter, IK, ... (too many really) 
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