Mus
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MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
I'm assuming not too many people have this interface but does anyone know whether I can expect better roundtrip latency from MOTU 64-bit drivers than my current Tascam US 122L?
Current roundtrip is 12.2ms at 128 samples on a low latency setting (the lowest latency setting is unworkable)
I need a notch (or two?) better than that to trigger softsynths when recording...
Ta
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CJaysMusic
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2010/03/06 19:41:46
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☄ Helpful
I cant help, cause i have XP32, but I get a 5.4 Round trip latency (not one way) with my Motu ultralite
Alot of users have this interface, but i dunno about the 64bit part.
My ASIo buffers do go down to 64 and Motu drivers are known to be better than Tascam's
Cj
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Player
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2010/03/06 22:19:08
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Round trip 5.3 msec, 64 samples, and 64 bit here--Ultralite mk3. Rock solid.
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Mus
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2010/03/07 06:39:05
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Player
Round trip 5.3 msec, 64 samples, and 64 bit here--Ultralite mk3. Rock solid.
Using the USB, not the FW, right? How do you like the interface? Good quality pres, software etc.? I'm looking to buy it next week and was hoping not to have to go up to an RME to get the latency down. The Tascam will only go down to 128 samples without glitching. However, I just tried ASIO4ALL with the internal HP soundcard at 64 samples and a reported roundtrip of 10.9ms and the softsynth midi input/playback with my Oxygen8 was totally workable. Hopefully this augurs well for the UL Mk3 working well, and as a bonus I can probably also use my Audient pre at home through the SPDIF.
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Player
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2010/03/07 17:14:06
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My apologies. I don't own the the Hybrid, just the Ultralite mk3. It would be great if the USB works as well as the firewire. Let us know if you purchase one. I think Jim at Studio Cat sells them. He would know the specs and performance, driver issues, etc.
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Mus
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2010/03/07 18:56:16
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Player
My apologies. I don't own the the Hybrid, just the Ultralite mk3. It would be great if the USB works as well as the firewire. Let us know if you purchase one. I think Jim at Studio Cat sells them. He would know the specs and performance, driver issues, etc.
Ah right, easily done. I know that Jim advocates the RME Fireface UC over the MOTU for USB, but it's a hefty price. I might review my strategy in view of my discovery today that I can input midi via ASIO4ALL and the internal soundcard. I don't need it on stage to trigger midi or anything. Maybe what I need is max 4 inputs plus SPDIF and good quality converters...
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2010/03/08 02:05:13
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Ah right, easily done. I know that Jim advocates the RME Fireface UC over the MOTU for USB, but it's a hefty price. If you want/need low round-trip latency (via USB), the Fireface UC is currently the only unit that'll deliver ~6ms at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k. Most USB units don't even offer ASIO buffer sizes smaller than 128-samples... plus they're using a large hidden safety buffer... so round-trip latency is thru the roof.  If you get the Ultralite mkIII, run it via a good TI Firewire controller... and you'll have decent round-trip latency. It's a couple of ms higher than the pre-mkIII units (to support the onboard DSP), but if you run at higher sample rates (88.2 or 96k) it'll negate the extra latency (albeit at a higher CPU load - which is a good trade-off if you're running a fast DAW).
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Mus
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2010/03/08 02:22:35
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Thanks Jim. I'll bear that in mind.
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Mus
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2010/03/08 06:14:07
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Mus
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2010/03/08 18:58:28
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Actually, ASIO4ALL gets the Tascam down to 128 samples and 7.3ms roundtrip - just about workable to record softsynths for a Johnny-one-note pianist like me :-)
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kp
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2010/03/09 08:59:52
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To be fair to MOTU, they're working on updating the drivers - I've had a lot of feedback from them after I reported the issue via motu.com and I reakon they're close to a fix.
When run by FireWire, there's still a hefty safety buffer, even though you can whack the user-configurable buffer down to 64 samples.
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Mus
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2010/03/09 09:48:34
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kp
To be fair to MOTU, they're working on updating the drivers
And so they should. Doesn't sound like they did much testing before releasing the drivers. And then retailers will presumably turn round and refuse returns because it's a software issue. Anyway, I don't own one, but may well do so if a fix works. Do you think the converters on this unit are one of the better ones on the market? I only really need 4 inputs max and SPDIF plus midi but as long as the converters are amongst the best I don't mind paying extra.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2010/03/09 13:14:53
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Do you think the converters on this unit are one of the better ones on the market? At that price-point...
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Mus
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2010/03/09 15:51:19
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Jim Roseberry
Do you think the converters on this unit are one of the better ones on the market?
At that price-point...
Sure. Actually the features I need are 2-4 inputs plus SPDIF with good converters. I have an Audient Mico pre which is excellent and can connect via SPDIF, but I won't have that with me all the toime. So I was wondering if there was an equivalent to that, or, say, the Apogee Duet for PC?
post edited by Mus - 2010/03/09 16:37:55
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kp
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2010/03/10 05:06:11
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Mus
kp
To be fair to MOTU, they're working on updating the drivers
And so they should. Doesn't sound like they did much testing before releasing the drivers. And then retailers will presumably turn round and refuse returns because it's a software issue.
Too true - they should have done (way) more testing before release. They're so much better than they used to be though (when I had one of their MIDI interfaces about 12 years ago) when messages vanished into a black hole and Windows users were ignored...
I haven't really pushed it hard at the moment (moving house - still :-)) so I can't comment too much on that question, but what I have done sounds good and it does seem to work reliably (with Firewire at the moment and I believe it will with USB too soon).
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maximumpower
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2015/06/07 09:40:27
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Jim Roseberry
Ah right, easily done. I know that Jim advocates the RME Fireface UC over the MOTU for USB, but it's a hefty price.
If you want/need low round-trip latency (via USB), the Fireface UC is currently the only unit that'll deliver ~6ms at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size/44.1k. Most USB units don't even offer ASIO buffer sizes smaller than 128-samples... plus they're using a large hidden safety buffer... so round-trip latency is thru the roof.
If you get the Ultralite mkIII, run it via a good TI Firewire controller... and you'll have decent round-trip latency.
It's a couple of ms higher than the pre-mkIII units (to support the onboard DSP), but if you run at higher sample rates (88.2 or 96k) it'll negate the extra latency (albeit at a higher CPU load - which is a good trade-off if you're running a fast DAW).
Which is amazing to me that the Profire 610 is 6.4ms with buffer set to 64 @ 44.1KHz sampling. I got this thing several years ago for $300 new. Too bad m-audio isn't supporting it and don't have anything as good as it now in their lineup. The more I research this, the more I realize how good the Profire is (latency wise) for the price. It looks like I have to go from $300 to $2000 (RME) just to get something as good.
Win 10 (64 bit), i7-2600k 3.4GHz , 8 GB RAM, SATA III (500GB SSD - System, 2TB WD Black - Data), Sonar Platinum x64, m-audio Profire 610
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2015/06/08 10:05:08
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Keep in mind this thread is pretty old (the information is a bit out of date). ie: The new MOTU Ultralite AVB is $650, offers good A/D D/A, and has round-trip latency of 4.9ms at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size (44.1k).
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batsbrew
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2015/06/08 11:03:36
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this thread is over 5 years old.
why does someone bring such an old thread back up?
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maximumpower
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Re:MOTU Ultralite Mk3 Hybrid roundtrip latency
2015/06/08 17:40:33
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batsbrew
this thread is over 5 years old.
why does someone bring such an old thread back up?
...because I didn't notice that. lol Jim, thanks for the MOTU Ultralight AVB info.
Win 10 (64 bit), i7-2600k 3.4GHz , 8 GB RAM, SATA III (500GB SSD - System, 2TB WD Black - Data), Sonar Platinum x64, m-audio Profire 610
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Jsommer
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TECHNO GUYS FASTER
2015/08/04 17:33:47
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I have been seeking faster and faster interfaces and when I came across the so called "updated" technology of Ultralite Mk3 I was puzzled as to why they had not made this interface faster than it's grandpa Ultralite... I later learned that CueMix, a latency free part of the new hardware would make zero latency for... you guess it: mic, guitar and everything unfriendly to techno. I myself make Dubstep and need something good with digital and not just no latency with acoustics. Therefore, I set about for close to three months seeking out the answers. I found that Google was a poor choice as there is just not enough information the subject!
Here was my findings on my own:By themselves, the difference is very large for digital musicians: Roundtrip latency recordings...
On a buffer of 32 Sample 44.100 kHz...
My problem:
Roundtrip is a 3.4 ms on Mk3! Very slow for MIDI users. Roundtrip on my grand-father original Ultralite from 2007 is an awesome 2.7 ms. This is a .7 ms which is way to high of a difference for me. For audio musicians the CueMix is awesome, but for us techno guys it is not so great to have the extra baggage for this technology placed on our speed. :(( Boo!
However, I found something that may be of use to some on this search:
My solution:
With just the Input Device set to none in Preferences I got 2.4 ms on my Mk3 and the Ultralite was a 2.1 ms... hey I can live with .3 difference because it comes with CueMix, which I can use for my guitar players and singers to have zero latency. I must let the reader know you need a USB piano, like the one I have, that bypasses MIDI - or you will need the Ultralite's Input to be on, dragging down your latency. A USB piano should not be hard to come by nowadays though!
Also, when recording your techno, set it to input none and when you are recording audio set it on - as you may need your Input to be set to Ultralite mk3 for CueMix to do it's magic. Either way, it is low latency for digital guys - whohoo!
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: TECHNO GUYS FASTER
2015/08/05 10:57:54
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Jsommer
My solution:
With just the Input Device set to none in Preferences I got 2.4 ms on my Mk3 and the Ultralite was a 2.1 ms... hey I can live with .3 difference because it comes with CueMix, which I can use for my guitar players and singers to have zero latency. I must let the reader know you need a USB piano, like the one I have, that bypasses MIDI - or you will need the Ultralite's Input to be on, dragging down your latency. A USB piano should not be hard to come by nowadays though!
Also, when recording your techno, set it to input none and when you are recording audio set it on - as you may need your Input to be set to Ultralite mk3 for CueMix to do it's magic. Either way, it is low latency for digital guys - whohoo!
FWIW, You really aren't changing anything by disabling your audio interface's input. When playing virtual instruments, you're not dealing with Round-Trip latency... rather one-way "Play-Back" latency. The only time you're dealing with Round-Trip latency is if you're monitoring in realtime thru software based EFX/processing. IOW, When playing virtual instruments, you're experiencing 2.4ms latency (doesn't matter if you disable the input section or not). Note about automatic Plugin Delay Compensation (PDC): If you have any latent plugins inserted anywhere in the project, they will cause all other audio to be delayed by that amount (to maintain sample accurate sync). There's an option in the control-bar to temporarily disable PDC. Round-Trip latency is the sum of the following: - ASIO input buffer
- ASIO output buffer
- The driver's hidden safety buffer
- A/D and D/A converters
Playback latency (when playing virtual instruments) is the sum of the following: - ASIO output buffer
- The drivers hidden safety buffer
- D/A converters
Latency has but two sources: - Audio Interface
- Latent Plugins
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Jsommer
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Re: TECHNO GUYS FASTER
2015/08/07 22:01:03
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Jim Roseberry
Playback latency (when playing virtual instruments)
Jim, thank you for your reply. Yes, I think I understand round-tip latency is not what I'm looking for. In the preference pane can I find this Playback latency that you mentioned? Where can I find how fast my keyboard is playing LIVE with virtual instruments on Logic Pro 9?
post edited by Jsommer - 2015/08/07 22:08:57
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