M/S Recording

Author
Post
Essentials Only Full Version
bewerber2
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 40
  • Joined: 2015/02/07 08:56:46
  • Status: offline
2016/09/02 12:43:06 (permalink)

M/S Recording

Hi !!
 
I have a complicated question regarding MS recording (with two microphones. 90 degrees..) which I did not understand yet:
 
Description
Let's assume that I recorded an acoustic guitar using the MS technique. So I have three tracks in SONAR: one is a representation of the mid microphone (MONO) and I have a track where I recorded the "S" microphone and one copy of the "S" track where I inverted the phase of the same. So far so good.
 
Questions
1. My question is how to process the sum of these tracks from this point? When I route these three tracks to one track or bus (which I call "FinalAcousticGuitar" for instance), should I use ChannelTools-plugin on this summing track and switch it to "MS-Input" to tell SONAR that these three tracks are not "normal" but "MS" recorded or is that not neccessary?
 
2. The second question is: I use the Elysia Alpha compressor on the MASTER bus, which can be switched between Stereo and MS mode. When one of my project tracks is MS recorded, does it mean that I have to use the MS mode up from this track in all following tracks/busses where the MS track goes in and also turn the MASTER bus compressor to MS in order to keep the MS information? If so, what about the other tracks that are not MS recorded? All These tracks lose their panning Information then due to the MS formula which is used on the MASTER bus.
 
3. Is it possible to combine MS-tracks with "normal" mono tracks that are LCR panned? So can I record a guitar in MS mode and at the same time use a piano which is hard left panned? What is the right setting on my MASTER bus compressor in this case: MS or stereo?
 
4. When I insert ChannelTools to the MASTER track and switch it to MS Input, it sounds different than when I insert the Elysia Alpha MASTER bus compressor and switch it to MS mode. Why?
 
Maybe one of the experts here can bring some light in this weird subject..
 
Thanks a lot in advance!!!
 
Cheers,
V.
 
post edited by bewerber2 - 2016/09/02 13:38:17
#1

4 Replies Related Threads
    DeeringAmps
    Max Output Level: -49 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2614
    • Joined: 2005/10/03 10:29:25
    • Location: Seattle area
    • Status: offline
    Re: M/S Recording 2016/09/03 08:41:24 (permalink)
    I know this is not an answer to your question, but...
    Set the mics up as a blumlein pair, two tracks, great stereo image, no copy, flip, etc.
    I tried the MS, got hip to the blumlein pair, never looked back.
     
    T

    Tom Deering
    Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page
    Firewire "Legacy" Tutorial, Service Manual, Schematic, and Service Bulletins

    Win10x64
    StudioCat Pro Studio Coffee Lake 8086k 32gb RAM

    RME UFX (Audio)
    Tascam FW-1884 (Control) in Win 10x64 Pro
    #2
    rumleymusic
    Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1533
    • Joined: 2006/08/23 18:03:05
    • Location: California
    • Status: offline
    Re: M/S Recording 2016/09/06 22:52:25 (permalink)
    The MS processor does the decoding for you.  All you need is a stereo track with the mid on the left channel and the side on the right.  It should be the first plugin on the MS stereo track, if it is on the master buss, you waited too long.  That way the rest of your signal chain will be stereo.  If you recorded them on separate channels, you can easily combine them.  
     
     

    Daniel Rumley
    Rumley Music and Audio Production
    www.rumleymusic.com
    #3
    Chandler
    Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 477
    • Joined: 2012/11/02 08:56:21
    • Status: offline
    Re: M/S Recording 2016/09/07 09:58:12 (permalink)
    Here is a pretty good explanation of MS recording. http://www.uaudio.com/blog/mid-side-mic-recording/ .
    You don't need to use MS compression just because you have an MS recorded track. If you want to you can, but you don't have to. Also you can freely mix MS, mono and normal stereo recordings. Nothing bad will happen. The MS mode on a compressor just compresses the Mid signal and the side signal separately. Most compressors work in 1 of 3 modes, MS(compresses the Mid and side signals separately), Stereo unlinked(compresses the right and left separately), or stereo linked(everything is compressed at once. They all sound a bit different, so read up on them and more importantly test them out and see how they sound for yourself.

    My soundcloud page Chandlerhimself
    My Youtube page
    #4
    John T
    Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 6783
    • Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
    • Status: offline
    Re: M/S Recording 2016/09/09 19:49:36 (permalink)
    Going back to the OP: you're over-thinking it a bit. A mid-side matrix, if set up correctly, becomes a simple stereo signal. And a standard stereo master bus is perfectly happy with it.
     
    bewerber2
    1. My question is how to process the sum of these tracks from this point? When I route these three tracks to one track or bus (which I call "FinalAcousticGuitar" for instance), should I use ChannelTools-plugin on this summing track and switch it to "MS-Input" to tell SONAR that these three tracks are not "normal" but "MS" recorded or is that not neccessary?
     

    No. You've got your mid, your side, and your phase-flipped side, with the mid panned centre, and the sides panned left and right. And you're done. That's it. You can route them to their own bus if you like, or you can just send them to the stereo master.
     

    2. The second question is: I use the Elysia Alpha compressor on the MASTER bus, which can be switched between Stereo and MS mode. When one of my project tracks is MS recorded, does it mean that I have to use the MS mode up from this track in all following tracks/busses where the MS track goes in and also turn the MASTER bus compressor to MS in order to keep the MS information? If so, what about the other tracks that are not MS recorded? All These tracks lose their panning Information then due to the MS formula which is used on the MASTER bus.
     

    No. Your master should just stay stereo. Your decoding of the mid-side has already taken place upstream.
     
     
     

    3. Is it possible to combine MS-tracks with "normal" mono tracks that are LCR panned? So can I record a guitar in MS mode and at the same time use a piano which is hard left panned? What is the right setting on my MASTER bus compressor in this case: MS or stereo?
      

    Stereo. Your mid-side setup has become stereo by the time it hits the master bus. The master bus absolutely doesn't care about it, or affect it in any way.
     
     

    4. When I insert ChannelTools to the MASTER track and switch it to MS Input, it sounds different than when I insert the Elysia Alpha MASTER bus compressor and switch it to MS mode. Why?
      

    No idea about that, as I'm not familiar with that plug in.
     
     

    http://johntatlockaudio.com/
    Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
    #5
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1