Helpful ReplyMS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think)

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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 02:28:56 (permalink)
If anyone is interested, here's what coming next.
 
Windows 8.2 is likely to be very similar to the Spring Update (Windows 8.1 Update) and may be called Windows 8.1 Update 2 (Autumn Update). This is still being debated internally at Microsoft. Part of the Autumn Update will include a partially tiled Start Menu and possibly “windowed” Metro apps.
 
Windows 9 is likely to contain a revamped Metro interface. The new start menu and windowed Metro apps will also be included in this update.  In the classic form the start menu will be available on devices without a touchscreen and on server systems. On systems with a touchscreen, the start button should be a different concept. Microsoft is considering making a free version of Windows 9 but a final decision has not been made on this issue.
 
Windows Cloud OS
There is a group working on a prototype operating system where the client software will be free to download and additional functionality requires a subscription.  The functionality to download the OS resides in the system’s BIOS. Once installed Windows Cloud requires an internet connection for full functionality. In offline mode the OS would be similar to Microsoft’s budget operating system, Windows Starter.
 
They will also be doing away with the desktop on at least one version of Windows. Most likely Windows RT.
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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 09:33:14 (permalink)
The Desktop is not a part of Windows RT now.

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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 10:05:38 (permalink)
That's incorrect. Tap the desktop tile to get to the desktop in WinRT.
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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 10:56:51 (permalink)
With 8.1 there maybe no desktop tile, but you can get it back:
http://www.neowin.net/new...esktop-tile-by-default

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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 11:15:34 (permalink)
The cloud option is interesting...and growing in popularity as it has become more common.  But, they are going to have to come up with a way to do more when offline or this cloud-based offering won't get off the ground.  The Metro interface looks like a promising development, however.

Erin Walsh
Boost Sofware, Director of PR
 
 
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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 11:42:06 (permalink)
You can also right click/press hold the windows start button to get to desktop on RT.
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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 12:12:51 (permalink)
"Windows RT 8.1 is only available preinstalled on select tablets and PCs. Thin and light, Windows RT 8.1 PCs feature extended battery life, so they start up in an instant and stay connected to email, social networks, and apps, which means you’re always up to date. Office Home & Student 2013 RT is also included, so you can be productive while on the go. Windows RT 8.1 only runs built-in apps or apps that you download from the Windows Store. For more info, see the Windows RT 8.1 FAQ."
 
The above is from Microsoft  http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/rt  And this is the part that is what I am talking about  "Windows RT 8.1 only runs built-in apps or apps that you download from the Windows Store." Apps not programs.  For programs you need the desktop as in Windows 8.1 Pro.  

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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 12:40:38 (permalink)
Check my link John. The reason why native windows apps won't run on RT is because the software won't run on ARM based chipsets which is what RT is designed to do (which runs metro apps compiled for ARM). RT does have a desktop supplied within its UI. Calling native windows apps 'desktop apps' just shows how confused MS marketing dept was with the whole thing themselves, it's not surprising their own customers get confused.Cheers.
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/04/22 12:50:40

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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 13:12:14 (permalink)
Alex has it correct. I have an RT and it runs the Office Suite but the applications seem hobbled in most instances for my use (no VB code in Excel, Lookout can't connect consistently to one of my email accounts, etc.). Works great as a control surface for X3 transport controls...a bit small for mixing. I can also shift between the Start Page and a Desktop view.
 
Regards,
 
 


Mike

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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 13:23:52 (permalink)
mmorgan
Alex has it correct. I have an RT and it runs the Office Suite but the applications seem hobbled in most instances for my use (no VB code in Excel, Lookout can't connect consistently to one of my email accounts, etc.). Works great as a control surface for X3 transport controls...a bit small for mixing. I can also shift between the Start Page and a Desktop view.
 
Regards,
 
 


To me a desktop in windows is for running programs. It has evolved from the DOS prompt. The use of a desktop without being able to run programs is of very limited use.  I fully understand what Windows RT is for. 
 
Apps don't meed a desktop. 

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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 14:45:18 (permalink)
MS still calls it a desktop even though it can only run office at the moment. Windows RT will lose the desktop and will combine with Windows phone OS and will be sold on devices 8" and under. Devices 9" and bigger with x86 will be sold with Windows 9 or Windows Next or whatever they call it.
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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 15:43:49 (permalink)
John
 
To me a desktop in windows is for running programs. It has evolved from the DOS prompt. The use of a desktop without being able to run programs is of very limited use.  I fully understand what Windows RT is for. 
 
Apps don't meed a desktop. 


John just to be clear I'm not trying to argue here. However your statement above seems to contradict itself. When you say Apps are you referring to Windows Store Apps? And is that how you are drawing a distinction between 'programs' and 'Apps'?
 
My experience with my Surface RT is such that my Surface 'what-ever-you-want-to-call-it' looks and performs almost identically to my Windows 8.1 Desktop. I have my Taskbar and it has customized embedded Toolbars just like Win 8.1. It has application (and custom programs I wrote) Shortcuts pinned to it as does my custom Toolbar. The only significant difference as an end user is I can't have some of my favorite apps/programs (like Sonar, Chrome, and Maschine to name a few). I do have the Office Suite (Lite) and that is all I need for that particular bit (i.e. my Surface RT) of my arsenal. This last bit is the reason why I agree with Alex on ARM chip and compilation options.
 
So call it what you will, MS refers to it as the Desktop and I do too.
 
Regards,
 


Mike

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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 16:27:38 (permalink)

Windows RT vs Windows 8: software and compatibility
There's a big difference here: Windows RT comes with Office preinstalled, and Windows 8/Pro doesn't. However, Windows 8/Pro are compatible with existing Windows programs and Windows RT isn't. Windows RT apps must use the Microsoft-style interface, although Windows 8 programs can use the traditional Windows desktop too.

Windows RT also restricts what APIs (application programming interfaces) developers can use, especially for web browsers. As Mozilla's Harvey Anderson puts it, "only Internet Explorer will be able to perform many of the advanced computing functions vital to modern browsers in terms of speed, stability, and security to which users have grown accustomed."
 
The above is taken from here http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/windows-8-vs-windows-rt-whats-the-difference-1086980
 
My understanding is no program can run on Windows RT. Only apps can, Metro apps. If one is able to run programs it must be Windows 8 or Windows 8 Pro not Windows RT.  

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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 16:49:49 (permalink)
John
My understanding is no program can run on Windows RT. Only apps can, Metro apps. If one is able to run programs it must be Windows 8 or Windows 8 Pro not Windows RT.  


Again that's because they aren't compiled under ARM. The RT version of office included with RT is compiled under ARM. Sorry nothing to do with the UI whatever MS makes you want to believe (marketing mumbo jumbo). BTW Windows store apps must be compiled specially to be used for RT of course as it's a different chipset, see here:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/xaml/jj863300.aspx
 
The "desktop" is not required for native Windows apps either.... just start Windows, then start notepad. Then kill the explorer.exe in task manager.... bingo no desktop but notepad running totally fine. Want to bring back the desktop just run explorer.exe and bingo it's back. So the "desktop" (explorer) is merely a native windows app itself. The "desktop" is simply a shell. Therefore MS calling native windows apps "desktop software" frankly is totally confusing and wrong, for it's not running the app under explorer.exe!! Personally I don't think they like using the word "incompatible" as it might give them bad press, so they invent different and confusing names they think windows users could understand. However Windows RT really is nothing like Windows 8 other than looks alone.
 
In a nutshell RT is basically a great pretender.... RT and windows 8 share basic programming libraries which makes life slightly easier for developers but it is far from optimal right now, maybe Windows 9 will resolve it and converge development platforms.
 
All apps are compiled differently whether it is windows phone, windows 8 or windows RT, not an ideal situation right now but suits the hardware platforms they are targeted in today's technology.

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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 18:04:02 (permalink)
Alex are you saying Sonar will run on a Windows RT system? 

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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 18:20:30 (permalink)
Sonar has not been developed for the ARM chipset so far (ARM probably would not be powerful enough anyway). There are also no versions of Sonar for Linux or Windows phone :). The point is Windows RT is an entirely different OS that shares tools that make life easier for developers to port across under the guise of something that looks like native "Windows".

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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/22 18:48:13 (permalink)
CakeAlexS
Sonar has not been developed for the ARM chipset so far (ARM probably would not be powerful enough anyway). There are also no versions of Sonar for Linux or Windows phone :). The point is Windows RT is an entirely different OS that shares tools that make life easier for developers to port across under the guise of something that looks like native "Windows".


I think you are looking at this the wrong way. The same apps that you say are developed for an ARM system also run fine on an Intel system. I run apps from the store along side programs. It is the ability of Windows 8 to run apps and programs that makes it different from Windows RT. Not the platform it runs on. 
 
I think we are saying the same thing but with a different emphasis. I'll agree that Windows RT is a different OS but only because it wont run "legacy" programs. After all that is what matters to the end user.    
 
 

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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/23 01:04:42 (permalink)
slartabartfast
 
If you followed the default setup for Win 8 or 8.1 you set your machine with an account that requires Microsoft Live ID, but you probably do not want to re-install the OS just to change this perverse behavior. You can pretty easily add a new local account to your current installation and log on to that account without using a Microsoft Live ID or going to the cloud every time you log in.
 
.
 

CakeAlexS

 

 
Thanks guys. The "local account" option is always there, and but some stuff is disabled if you don't use a Microsoft account. In fact, I was using a local account (and I still have a local account on that computer) when I discovered that that Calendar wouldn't load, because I was using a local account.
 
Appreciate the suggestions, though.
 
 
 

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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/23 03:27:18 (permalink)
Calendar is not the only "Modern" app that requires a Microsoft account to run. This is the Microsoft equivalent of standing outside the school yard offering samples of heroin to the kiddies. Synchronization of course will require someplace in the cloud to store your settings. But there is no good reason why these apps could not be made to work on local accounts except that MS wants you hooked on their version of the cloud. Enjoy.
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Re: MS killing off Windows 8.0 (not quite what you think) 2014/04/23 14:29:17 (permalink)
John
CakeAlexS
Sonar has not been developed for the ARM chipset so far (ARM probably would not be powerful enough anyway). There are also no versions of Sonar for Linux or Windows phone :). The point is Windows RT is an entirely different OS that shares tools that make life easier for developers to port across under the guise of something that looks like native "Windows".


I think you are looking at this the wrong way. The same apps that you say are developed for an ARM system also run fine on an Intel system.

 
Sorry this is not so. The Windows Store carries both the ARM and x86/64/Windows phone separate packages of the metro app which have been compiled separately, each build needs separate considerations when doing so. So it's not the same app at all, it's four apps that look similar. The app will only run on the platform it is targeted. Yup it may look the same but it ain't.
 
It's a bit like saying a 64 bit plugin will work on a 32 bit system, it won't... you need a 32 bit version. But Windows store will just give you the package you need anyway so you don't even have to think about it (but make no mistake it ain't the same software!)... 
 
 
There is some crossover with the development tools used to develop the applications. Metro apps are reliant on the .NET framework. The WinRT framework stack is a subset of the full .NET Framework stack (so it's different). At some stage RT and Windows phone will probably converge however.
 
http://www.howtogeek.com/180225/arm-vs.-intel-what-it-means-for-windows-chromebook-and-android-software-compatibility/
 
http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2012/08/28/the-old-yet-new-firestorm-windows-rt-sandboxed-limiting-performance-api-access-certain-apps/
 
There is a similar situation with Native instruments apps running on Mac and PC, hard to tell the difference between them (there are subtle differences however and the innards are entirely different therefore two different packages are required). If you had the same "store" that served PC and Mac for this software you might be conned into thinking it is the same software. Maybe you could rebrand the Mac "WinMac RT" as it appears to be running the same software as the PC with this NI example :).
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/04/23 14:43:55

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