MTC, MMC, Midi Sync ??

I'm not familiar with the VS-890 but from your description I would guess that it is not transmitting MTC hence Sonar never starting.

Check the manual/settings on the VS-890 would be my starting point, I'm assuming if it works the other way round your cabling and connections are okay. Check your settings in Preferences-->Audio-->sync and caching as well.


EDIT: Having said that if it's simple transport control that you want MIDI sync is the way to go.

If you only want to use the VS-890 as a transport controller for Sonar and don't care about syncing the Vs-890 and Sonar just use MMC. 

What I will be doing is Sync'n' both transport and the time clock between Sonar and The roland Vs-890.
I would like to build drum tracks on session drummer, and sync that track (and time) with the other overdubbed tracks I record on the Roland. Then I can mix everything down at the end. This would also alow me to transfer tracks seamlessly into Sonar from the VS (as long as latency and offset doesnt become too much of a problem)
 
I am beginning to get a clear(er) picture about what , works what.
SO basiclly it boils down to two different things. One sync for stop/start/rewind (song pointer positioning).......MIDI Sync?
 
And the second ....one of the unit's needs to be master clock and tranmists Time code to the other...MTC? (smtpe?)
 
 
If I am understanding correctly, I will have to use Midi Sync to sync the transport controls, and then use one of the units to be the "time keeper"? And who ever the time keeper is has to transmit MTC to the other device to keep it in time?
 
As far as controling fader movements in Sonar using the 890 as an Interface (MMC?) - That would at this time be a luxury, and probabaly more out of my scope at the moment, but an intersting concept to ponder for later.
 
I guess my question now is - which to make the master clock, that I set as the Master, and enable to send timecode.
 
Back to work on the problem with those considerations and see if I can get this SYNC'n' busniess DOWN so I can start building beats!
 
Thanks to all for the help!
 
 

you dont need to use mtc,only midi synch, i will write a tutorial for you a little bit later,its easy.

chuck

Hey Charlie!

Thanks for the response!
You got me backwards on what I want to do actually.
For  grins i hooked up Dr-770 Drum machine and tried what you gave me and it worked no probs first time....The problem is...

I want the Roland VS-890 to start the playback, not Sonar.
The Roland is just a basic virtual studio that i do all my analog recording on, and I know that sounds counterintuitive to what SOnar does, but I have a piece of crap PC and when i get more than 3 tracks going it lags.

I know I am getting MIDI signal out of the ROLAND because I can see the MIDI flash on my MIDI/USB device.

But SOnar always just says at "waiting for MIDI sync" so it must be something with the output of the Roland

On my roland the settings are :

Midi pr= device ID (1-?)
Midithru = out/in
SysEx. Rx = on/off
SysEx. Tx - On/off
MMC = Off/master/slave
Ctr Local = On/off
Ctr Type = Off/C.C./EXcl
P.C. Scene = off/on
P.C. Eff = on/off
CC. Eff = On/off

In the sync/Tempo area i have:
Source = EXT/INT
Gen = Off/MTC/MIDIclk
Errlevel= 1-10
MTC type = 30/29/24
Tempomap - yada
ANd places to record sync tracks

If narrowing this down, I might need to do some posting on the Roland Forums to see what  settings need to be made to it.
Ive tried every combination of settings and thinking maybe I might have problems with the Midi ports on My Vs-890

Any thoughts? Maybe HUGE HAMMAH?

ROck on problems or not
MIke!

ps - I guess plan B else i can build sequences on the DR Rythm and just have SONAR play them.....

VS890 SEND MTC/MMC SLAVE

Here's what you need set up on your VS ( "don't care" means it doesn't matter);
 
First up, an MTC based set up
Midi pr= don't care
Midithru = out/
SysEx. Rx = off
SysEx. Tx - off
MMC = master
Ctr Local = On
Ctr Type = C.C.
P.C. Scene = don't care
P.C. Eff = don't care
CC. Eff = don't care
In the sync/Tempo area:
Source = INT
Gen = MTC
Errlevel= 5 - you may need to play with this
MTC type = 24
ON Sonar:
 
Preferences->Project->Midi - nothing should be checked
 
Preferences->Project->Clock
    Source = SMPTE/MTC
    Ticks per Quarter-Note = 960
    Timecode Format = 24 fps
    SMTPE/MTC Offset = 00:00:00:00 - this must match the offset on the Roland
 
Preferences->Audio->Sync and Caching
    Synchronization = Full Chase
    When SMPTE/MTC is detected = Always switch clock source and start
    When clock source is set to SMPTE/MTC or Midi Sync, Pressing play in SONAR will = Maintain current clock source and wait for timeoode
 
That should be enough. Using MTC, Sonar will track the timecode sent by the Roland. I picked 24fps, to make it easier to set up. 30fps has more resolution, but increases MIDI traffic and since I donot know if the "30" for roland's MTC type is drop frame (df) or non-drop frame (ndf), which is very important as picking the wrong one will cause timing to become unstable.
 
Now why MTC and not MIDI Sync? Midi Sync is a clock signal that runs at the rate of 24 pulses per quarter note. It conveys tempo, but not song position. MTC is a mesage containing the current time, starting from the SMTPE/MTC offset, sent at quarter frame intervals (at 24fps, this means a timestamp is sent 96 times per second). You can set up Sonar to work with the midi sync signal, but then you have to configure a control surface so that it reacts to MMC.
 
You can set it you that way, by changing the configuration from above:
 
On the VS, set the sync/tempo->Gen = MIDIClk
On sonar Preferences->Project->Clock->Source = MIDI Sync 
The rest of the settings are the same as before.
 
In addition, you need to set up a Control surface:
 
Preferences->Midi->COntrol Surface
    Clicking the yellow star adds a new controller.
    On the pop up dialog, pick MMC (if you have it in the list), ACT Midi controller, or Cakewalk generic controller.
    Pick the midi in and out that connect to your roland.
 
Next, if you picked ACT or Generic surface, you have to locate the ACT module on the module bar at teh top of the main screen. Pick the control surface you added, and hit the lower right button that looks like a bullet list in a box on the module. This will bring up the editor where yuo have to make sonar "learn" the midi mesages from the roland. Its a long process that is too long for a post. Have a look in the pdf manual or online help.
 
That is why I offered MTC first, You don't have to set up a controller as Sonar will track the timecode directly. :)

A little update on my progress.....

Well this didn't turn out like I thought it would.
After messing around with all you guy's suggestions, I still haven't been able to SYNC either device.

BUT, On the other hand , I did figure out how to "teach" Sonar to be controlled by my VS thru MMC ( fader, pan control etc ). (thanks Js for that lil bit)
 
As far as the time code sync still nothing.
Apparently MMC is working just fine, why I can't get and timecode /transport control sync is beyond me.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions!

That's what baffles me.
I am wondering if maybe the Uno-Sport is not desgined to transfer Time code or do sync'n , but I have looked on their forums as well and can't find any problems with other people saying the same thing.

Obviously the MMC is being transfered and I know it works in combination with my MIDI keyboard controller as soft synth's work just fine.

It really is a mystery to me......or I am just so DUMB that maybe I shoudln't be recording at all! HAHA.

Kon, could it also be that you were transfering Clock via the Digital connect?


Determined to try!
Mikey

can_you_funk


That's what baffles me.
I am wondering if maybe the Uno-Sport is not desgined to transfer Time code or do sync'n , but I have looked on their forums as well and can't find any problems with other people saying the same thing.

Obviously the MMC is being transfered and I know it works in combination with my MIDI keyboard controller as soft synth's work just fine.

It really is a mystery to me......or I am just so DUMB that maybe I shoudln't be recording at all! HAHA.

Kon, could it also be that you were transfering Clock via the Digital connect?


Determined to try!
Mikey

Hi Mikey,

I ran into a problem with the Uno-Sport incorrectly transmitting MTC when the driver is running under a 64 bit OS. The MidiSport 2x2 doesn't seem to suffer from the same issue. Do you have another midi interface you can try?

I seriously doubt that you will have much luck running Sonar as a slave. Lots of samples are going to get thrown out OR sample clock adjusted where there ain't no samples to play. It always baffles me that people buy the very best convertors and clock that they can afford and then proceed to nullify it and throw it all out the window by asking Sonar to become varispeed . Works as a sequencer ok. But audio ?

Here's a real amatuer video that I did a few years back with Sonar running some audio and lots of midi tracks  as the master. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV63e7tWWIQ

Bookmarked. Awesome thread.

Js,

I tried the MidiOX and it picked up the SysEx's from the Roland transport with no problems at all. 

I had the counter up on MidiOx and it streamed the HEX for the transport functions and also moved the clock in MidiOX (although it didn't roll the time clock but when i stopped the play i noticed that it matched exactly with the timecode on the roland.)

So I am obviously sending out MTC.

Once again I try in Sonar.....
(under clock)
*Enable the midi ports for the M-Sport Uno..
*Change the Clock to SMPTE/MTC (24 fps on both units)
(under Sync)
*Full Chase
*Always Change clocks and start
*Maintain current clock and wait for Timecode
*And at that point shouldn't I be sync'd? 
*When I hit play on the Sonar transport is says " waiting for time code" ....and that's it.

I'm sure it's the dumbest thing I have overlooked at this point.

But boy will I ever be knowledgeable about Synch'n' from now on!

Keep on Funk'n'!