Sanderxpander
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/05 14:25:26
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I think, whether we like it or not, they're just betting on dedicating their resources to further development of touch, instead of pouring more effort into a market that may dwindle in the coming years. I say that without any "defense" of CW in mind, by the way. It just seems to be what's happening. I'm merely expressing hope their bet pans out to our greater benefit, as I don't see them going 180 soon.
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John T
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/05 14:34:31
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Yeah, I think you're right. It's not a move that appeals to me personally, but it's clearly what's happening.
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denverdrummer
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/05 17:31:31
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We also don't know what partner products they are going to come out with TASCAM. They will probably dedicate more development resources towards things that will sell more CW licenses rather than dedicate resources to things that means no real revenue for the company.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/06 04:00:48
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stxx
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/06 16:10:02
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Like denverdrummer mentions, I'm still hoping the Tascam partnership yields something that covers the physical control surface request otherewise why the heck partner?? I still like touching something with dimension. Like much of todays music, touch/flat screen has about as much feel as music made with all virtual instruments. Give me real drums and REAL FADERS !!! LOL
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eric_peterson
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/06 16:33:32
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I think you really have to re-think a GUI if you want it highly usable with touch interfaces. I have a 24" touch screen Sony VAIO that I used to drive the Presonus 16.4.2 in our PA. Trying to use the Presonus SW using the touch interface is an exercise in frustration, some widgets aren't even usable. In sharp contrast, when we all take out our iPads and connect to it the touch interface works like a dream.
post edited by eric_peterson - 2014/03/06 16:53:14
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/06 16:53:26
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Agreed! I expect/hope Cake will be devoting their resources to this in lieu of those protocols.
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denverdrummer
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/06 18:30:39
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eric_peterson
I think you really have to re-think a GUI if you want it highly usable with touch interfaces. I have a 24" touch screen Sony VAIO that I used to drive the Presonus 16.4.2 in our PA. Trying to use the Presonus SW using the touch interface is an exercise in frustration, some widgets aren't even usable. In sharp contrast, when we all take out our iPads and connect to it the touch interface works like a dream.
I had the same experience when I had the 1818VSL, which has a similar interface to the Live mixer systems. What is sad is that the iPad was a waste because I found out I still had to have the 1818VSL connected to my computer and then have that computer connected to a router, and then use the iPad on top. I was trying to get a system that was ultra portable and I could setup for a live gig and run out of the VSL as a submix to the front of house. Would have been awesome if I could just taken the VSL and an iPad and be done with it. My next route was to try using my wife's Surface Pro. Would have been great but for two things, the first is exactly what you're talking about, the interface for the desktop app sucked for touch, and wouldn't even format to the screen correctly on a 10" display. The second problem was I found out that the VSL stuff is incompatible with Intel USB 3.0 ports, which is the reason I sold it. I'm really sad to have given that up because there's really not another interface that works as well for both live sound and recording, that also has integrated Midi ports. I was looking at the MOTU, which is an awesome interface, but alas no integrated MIDI I/O. Having said all that, I use touch screen in Sonar mainly to navigate the project. Oh my gosh it's so much faster than trying to use the mouse wheel with CTRL and Shift. You can literally fly across the project page using swipe, and it's invaluable in the PRV.
Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Dell Inspiron 15, core i7, 16GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mackie MR5 Mark 1 speakers
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eric_peterson
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/07 00:27:59
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I have been able to make the Presonus work for us. At age 50 and with a wife and four kids there's now way I can practice enough remember the chords/lyrics for almost 100 songs, not and hold down the day job too. So, I use a two page open facing PDF binder on my VAIO and flip pages with foot pedals. IOW, the VAIO is already there anyway on stand I built which includes the router and my guitar DSP which is all pre-wired. Given that, it's no big deal to just run the single cable bundle over to the mixer, the bundle includes: 16 foot firewire, guitar DSP output, and my vocals. I'm an Aerospace Hardware/Software/Systems guy and tend to get carried away, a prime example is our band's wiring harnesses: everything is shrink wrapped, has braided cable sleeving, and every connection is labelled. A bit over the top, but super helpful when setting up.
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FCCfirstclass
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/07 08:03:32
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eric_peterson
I have been able to make the Presonus work for us. At age 50 and with a wife and four kids there's now way I can practice enough remember the chords/lyrics for almost 100 songs, not and hold down the day job too. So, I use a two page open facing PDF binder on my VAIO and flip pages with foot pedals. IOW, the VAIO is already there anyway on stand I built which includes the router and my guitar DSP which is all pre-wired. Given that, it's no big deal to just run the single cable bundle over to the mixer, the bundle includes: 16 foot firewire, guitar DSP output, and my vocals. I'm an Aerospace Hardware/Software/Systems guy and tend to get carried away, a prime example is our band's wiring harnesses: everything is shrink wrapped, has braided cable sleeving, and every connection is labelled. A bit over the top, but super helpful when setting up.
I would not call that over the top. I would call it being very practical and also say you are doing it right. Congrats on your setup.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/07 11:02:15
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denverdrummer
eric_peterson
I think you really have to re-think a GUI if you want it highly usable with touch interfaces. I have a 24" touch screen Sony VAIO that I used to drive the Presonus 16.4.2 in our PA. Trying to use the Presonus SW using the touch interface is an exercise in frustration, some widgets aren't even usable. In sharp contrast, when we all take out our iPads and connect to it the touch interface works like a dream.
I had the same experience when I had the 1818VSL, which has a similar interface to the Live mixer systems. What is sad is that the iPad was a waste because I found out I still had to have the 1818VSL connected to my computer and then have that computer connected to a router, and then use the iPad on top.
I was trying to get a system that was ultra portable and I could setup for a live gig and run out of the VSL as a submix to the front of house. Would have been awesome if I could just taken the VSL and an iPad and be done with it.
My next route was to try using my wife's Surface Pro. Would have been great but for two things, the first is exactly what you're talking about, the interface for the desktop app sucked for touch, and wouldn't even format to the screen correctly on a 10" display. The second problem was I found out that the VSL stuff is incompatible with Intel USB 3.0 ports, which is the reason I sold it.
I'm really sad to have given that up because there's really not another interface that works as well for both live sound and recording, that also has integrated Midi ports. I was looking at the MOTU, which is an awesome interface, but alas no integrated MIDI I/O.
Having said all that, I use touch screen in Sonar mainly to navigate the project. Oh my gosh it's so much faster than trying to use the mouse wheel with CTRL and Shift. You can literally fly across the project page using swipe, and it's invaluable in the PRV.
How about an RME UFX? Totalmix FX is completely iPad optimized. Hrm actually that means having the cable connected as it doesn't do wireless without a PC... Did they update the X32 yet to make the midi port available to the DAW?
post edited by Sanderxpander - 2014/03/07 11:31:34
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drummaman
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/07 13:52:43
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Wow, what a thread... I haven't seen any mention of the NEW Behringer X-Touch... which uses the Mackie protocol... http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/X-TOUCH.aspxThere's just something about real faders, and right now there is a wide open market for an affordable control surface for home/project studios. The winners will be the manufacturers of those control surfaces, and the DAWs that work well with them. As for touch screen control, I have my iPad, but have yet to find a good surface/control app that work well with Sonar X3(d), and every review I've read on devices like the Slate Raven eventually get to "yeh, it's cool - but I still want my real faders"...
Sonar Platinum (x64) on Windows 10 Pro (64-bit) running on ADK Pro Audio i7 (12-core), 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD(OS), (2) 2TB drives/(1) 1TB drive for storage, (1) WD Raptor 1TB Audio Drive, (1) UAD-2 OCTO, (2) UAD-2 QUAD, Lynx Aurora 16/AES16
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/07 15:19:25
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I like V-Control Pro a lot, for your iPad.
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drummaman
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/07 15:34:08
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Sanderexpander -
I had high hopes for V-Control, but found out that things like sends volumes can't be accessed across all the tracks...
I had really hoped to use that for a four-headphone mix we use for "live" recording in the studio, (from behind the kit), but found that you cannot choose from and adjust multiple sends on multiple tracks.
For simple transport operations, it's fine, but it's really designed for ProTools, and as such they don't put much effort into tailoring it to other DAWs ...
I had their support trying to help, but they realized the shortfall right away, and basically said ProTools has their focus.
Sonar Platinum (x64) on Windows 10 Pro (64-bit) running on ADK Pro Audio i7 (12-core), 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD(OS), (2) 2TB drives/(1) 1TB drive for storage, (1) WD Raptor 1TB Audio Drive, (1) UAD-2 OCTO, (2) UAD-2 QUAD, Lynx Aurora 16/AES16
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/07 15:37:44
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Ah right, I haven't had the need for that so far. You could do it from the V-Window but that's less than ideal.
Thank you for chiming in with that.
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neirbod
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/07 18:43:12
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drummaman
Wow, what a thread...
I haven't seen any mention of the NEW Behringer X-Touch... which uses the Mackie protocol...
http://www.behringer.com/EN/products/X-TOUCH.aspx
I am very interested in this too. Seems like they have a potentially great product at a very nice price point. Behringer has really stepped up its game recently.
----------------- Windows 7 64Sonar PlatinumIntel i7 3.4 GHzGigabyte GA-H67A-UD3H-B3 moboRME UFX and UCX
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TabSel
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/21 16:38:26
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TheSound
Yeah. Basically:
The previous behavior was:
Request a handshake over and over again and do nothing else until you're responded to.
The behavior after my modifications:
Immediately pretend a successful handshake happened.
Never request a handshake.
If you get a handshake request, behave as usual and handshake back. (should keep everything that worked before, working still).
Just to give you some feedback: this works perfectly. No more "waiting...", no more midi hacks!!! This should be made sticky! Thanks a lot!
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thomasabarnes
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/21 17:30:34
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I agree. It may be a good idea to make this thread a sticky, so we don't miss any progress made and shared with the community. As a sticky, this thread can easily be found when having to refer to this thread for one reason or another.
 "It's not a song till it touches your heart. It's not a song till it tears you apart!" Lyrics of Amy Grant. SONAR Platinum X64 (jBridge), Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit, Core i7 990X Extreme Edition Processor 3.46 GHz 6 Cores, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, Crucial Ballistix 24GB 1333MHz DDR3 @1333 MHz, TASCAM UH-7000, Behringer X-Touch, EVGA GTX 980TI Superclocked 6GB, 1TB Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 150GB, 320GB, 1TB 7200rpm HDDs
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Dyonight
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/21 18:21:58
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Absolutely need to be a sticky. It's not a random/no interest thing. There's the actual link to the files which will be burried in the forums! That's unforgivable!
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/21 19:22:40
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We will be officially releasing the surface SDK next week and will include binaries for all the included surfaces including the Mackie with the fixes. We have posted updates to all the surfaces and now all the samples including the VS700 and VS100 build properly.
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Enigmatic
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/25 16:51:34
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I attempted to use this updated dll with Maschine MKII and it worked fine until it caused Sonar to freeze twice... both times forcing me to restart the computer as Sonar was so frozen it would not close at all. I did not attempt to reproduce it as I was worried about damaging something.
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daloopstar
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/28 11:35:54
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Hi. I have a small studio in my basement and just received the Behrenger BFC 2000. I also have the Octa Capture and just upgraded to X3 studio. I have read all the previous discussions on the protocol issue. Are there any updates to this issue with getting the BFC 2000 to work with x3? Thanks for any help in this. EC.
P.S I, and there are many like me, that are not that technically oriented. I am looking for an "easy way" to do this if there is such a thing.
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stxx
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/28 15:39:21
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I just purchased a used Behringer BCF000 for 149.00 and it does exactly what I need. Faders, pan, solo/mute! I also use a Frontier Alphatrack if I want physical control over a single fader and / or plugins and it works well so really, for the basics, I'm happy! Otherwise I am OK using the mouse for more detailed tasks. Eventually I guess one of these HW units (maybe the X-touch ?) will provide good control over prochannel and effects bins too and eventually I may even be ready to move up to Windows 8 as touchscreens improve but again, for now I found a very good compromise!
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daloopstar
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/03/28 15:51:02
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Thank you for your response. Can you help a technically simple minded guy how you were able to get the faders, pans solo/mute to work with the x3 program? EC
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zoffmeister
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/04/23 10:15:22
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I have Mackie Control and two extenders. I am feeling a little impatient. Desparately want to control all the ProChannel plugs. I've never used ACT. Can someone tell me, If I can use ACT to assign the controls for the various ProChan plugs to the buttons and pots on my Mackie and will SONAR X3 always remember those settings from now on?
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tok2burn
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2014/08/31 13:17:29
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I have a VS-20, which controls faders, record arm, transport functions (including record), and I set Midi Learn so the Master track output corresponds to the Output Level knob on the VS-20. (I'm not using the audio interface, only the control surface aspect).
What additional parameters does the Mackie control offer w.r.t. Sonar?
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amax55
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2015/04/21 17:36:02
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OK, now we have 2015 and what new? Do you know if the newest Sonar finally cooperates fully with Mackie (in particular with plug-ins and FX control)? As you probably know, the previous versions of Sonar did not control these functions of Mackie. Any change in new Sonar Platinum?
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amax55
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2015/04/21 17:37:20
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I mean MCU Pro, of course.
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sylent
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2015/04/21 17:56:17
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amax55
I mean MCU Pro, of course.
My MCU pro and extender work much much better. Recognizes them and settings right off the bat. Having said that, I haven't used them for everything I've done with plat yet, but so far have found no problems. This was my biggest issue with Sonar given the cost of the MCU system. Edit: I have mapped to a couple plugs successfully, but not tested much. 21
post edited by sylent - 2015/04/21 18:02:32
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azslow3
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Re: Mackie Control protocol broken in Sonar X1/X2/X3
2015/04/21 17:58:58
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I also would like to see some fixes in CS API...
But all my attempts to convince some owner of MC(U(P)) to spend 5 minutes ended with silence. That means everyone is happy or do not care.
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