Make Sonar operations less disruptive to beat Synced VSTs (aka gapless audio)

Author
CadErik
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 216
  • Joined: 2006/05/14 15:19:57
  • Status: offline
2015/11/03 21:01:46 (permalink)
5 (5)

Make Sonar operations less disruptive to beat Synced VSTs (aka gapless audio)

I use tons of VST beat synced plugins on my track, I have LFOTools on almost every track, also I use Effectrix, Stutter Edit and one of my griefs with Sonar Platinum is that lots of small operations (add/remove plugin, some edit operations, open or close melodyne etc.) do break the tempo and all the beat synced (not tempo synced - these ones are fine) become out of sync after, so basically you have to stop and restart to get the beats back in sync.
 
 
 
post edited by CadErik - 2015/11/04 15:41:37
#1

10 Replies Related Threads

    sharke
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13933
    • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
    • Location: NYC
    • Status: offline
    Re: Make Sonar operations less disruptive to beat Synced VSTs 2015/11/04 10:51:57 (permalink)
    0
    Yep this is a major gripe with Sonar with me as well. It's very easy to break the tempo during playback, even by toggling a send on or off. I've also found that it can affect plugins which are synced with song position. For instance the drum sequencer Geist has its own song sequencing mode in which you can sequence patterns along a timeline, which is in sync with Sonar's. Sometimes if I toggle a loop on or off in Sonar, Geist will become many bars out of sync until I stop and start again. 
     
    I've also found that in some projects, if you're looping and you do things like insert or delete effects, it doesn't just affect the timing of beat synced plugins but it can also affect the audio as well. I had this problem in a project last night where the kick track was becoming what sounded like half a beat out of sync every time I toggled a send or inserted an effect. 

    James
    Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
    #2
    sharke
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13933
    • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
    • Location: NYC
    • Status: offline
    Re: Make Sonar operations less disruptive to beat Synced VSTs 2015/11/04 10:53:22 (permalink)
    0
    P.S. Sonar needs something like LFO Tools built in!
     
    post edited by sharke - 2015/11/04 11:09:33

    James
    Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
    #3
    CadErik
    Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 216
    • Joined: 2006/05/14 15:19:57
    • Status: offline
    Re: Make Sonar operations less disruptive to beat Synced VSTs 2015/11/04 11:15:39 (permalink)
    0
    sharke
    Yep this is a major gripe with Sonar with me as well. It's very easy to break the tempo during playback, even by toggling a send on or off. I've also found that it can affect plugins which are synced with song position. For instance the drum sequencer Geist has its own song sequencing mode in which you can sequence patterns along a timeline, which is in sync with Sonar's. Sometimes if I toggle a loop on or off in Sonar, Geist will become many bars out of sync until I stop and start again. 
     
    I've also found that in some projects, if you're looping and you do things like insert or delete effects, it doesn't just affect the timing of beat synced plugins but it can also affect the audio as well. I had this problem in a project last night where the kick track was becoming what sounded like half a beat out of sync every time I toggled a send or inserted an effect.



    Exactly.
     
    I am not familiar enough with other DAWs but are they also sensitive to the addition/removal of plugins and other aux during playback?
     
    Also one thing, I realize the addition or removal of a plugin or an aux track can be complicated behind the scenes (especially if there is latency compensation involved) but there must be a way when the playback resumes (even if there is a pause) to keep on sync the beat synced plugins.
    #4
    sharke
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13933
    • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
    • Location: NYC
    • Status: offline
    Re: Make Sonar operations less disruptive to beat Synced VSTs 2015/11/04 13:00:51 (permalink)
    0
    Isn't this related to the concept of "gapless audio," which unfortunately Sonar's engine doesn't do?

    James
    Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
    #5
    CadErik
    Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 216
    • Joined: 2006/05/14 15:19:57
    • Status: offline
    Re: Make Sonar operations less disruptive to beat Synced VSTs 2015/11/04 14:04:35 (permalink)
    0
    sharke
    Isn't this related to the concept of "gapless audio," which unfortunately Sonar's engine doesn't do?

    As a start, I could survive without "gapless audio" if the beat synced VSTs did stay in sync. Does any of the other DAWs implement "gapless audio"?
     
    #6
    sharke
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 13933
    • Joined: 2012/08/03 00:13:00
    • Location: NYC
    • Status: offline
    Re: Make Sonar operations less disruptive to beat Synced VSTs 2015/11/04 14:08:14 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    I think Abelton does, and I'd be very surprised if it had time sync problems. Otherwise it would be useless "Live" as it were.

    James
    Windows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
    #7
    Notecrusher
    Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 579
    • Joined: 2004/02/17 00:32:14
    • Status: offline
    Re: Make Sonar operations less disruptive to beat Synced VSTs 2015/11/05 02:51:16 (permalink)
    +1 (1)
    Another oddity when using beat sync'd VSTi's is if you have a loop set and the beat sync'd VSTi is the only track, even if you start playback w/ the now marker at the start of the loop, Sonar rewinds to measure 1 and starts playback from there. This is hella annoying.
    #8
    mettelus
    Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 5321
    • Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
    • Location: Maryland, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re: Make Sonar operations less disruptive to beat Synced VSTs 2015/11/05 12:30:16 (permalink)
    0
    +1 to this... Need to comment so I remember to vote on this one. I have the same issue with Geist that is upsetting... Can do anything you want in Geist with the transport rolling, but one wrong move when linked to SONAR throws the synch off.

    ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
    #9
    Soulburned
    Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 53
    • Joined: 2015/03/29 17:03:19
    • Location: California
    • Status: offline
    Re: Make Sonar operations less disruptive to beat Synced VSTs 2015/11/10 00:09:14 (permalink)
    0
    I work with Ableton Live 9 (9.5 now), as well as Pro Tools and I've run into the occasional "drop out of sync" in both when loading a plugin during playback or enabling/disabling a plugin etc.

    As a rule I never load instances of plugins or effects of any sort or enable/disable them during playback (especially when a plugin or proecessor is known for increasing buffer/latency due to lookahead or needing a larger buffer than playback is currently set at). 

    I don't find it the least bit bothersome to simply stop and restart the playback to get things back in sync.  I will add that there are times when things just didn't seem to want to allow me to track/record with input echo in-time even with just a single ProChannel EQ enabled on a single track without causing noticeable input echo delay for monitoring through FX.  I haven't run into that situation often but it certain can be a session stopper when it happens and my clients rely on hearing themselves through FX to perform properly.

    The most recent occurrence of any sort of beat-sync oddity I've been running into is during tempo changes when using Kontakt 5 with tempo-sync'd instruments and triggering at the right tempo.  In these cases I have at least been able to workaround the issue by going into the instrument settings within kontakt and forcing manual tempo to the proper tempo I need it to be at.
    #10
    CadErik
    Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 216
    • Joined: 2006/05/14 15:19:57
    • Status: offline
    Re: Make Sonar operations less disruptive to beat Synced VSTs 2015/11/10 01:14:41 (permalink)
    0
    Soulburned
    I work with Ableton Live 9 (9.5 now), as well as Pro Tools and I've run into the occasional "drop out of sync" in both when loading a plugin during playback or enabling/disabling a plugin etc.

    That is surprising. Well, if this was not possible, I am sure some operations could be changed to avoid breaking the sync...
     
    Tonight, I was trying different loops on a project and every time Sonar started the preview, all my kicks went of sync. So even if gapless audio was not possible, it feels like way too many operations are affecting the audio engine today, which should not.
    #11
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1