Helpful ReplyMaking a guitar

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gswitz
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2016/01/26 20:13:44 (permalink)

Making a guitar

A friend and I are looking at attempting a guitar.
 
I don't have anything like a Les Paul. I only have a Strat (only, haha). This guitar will be an electric and not a hollow body.
 
Any suggestions for parts? Pickups. Frets. Stuff?
 
Neither of us has ever done this before. He has a new CNC machine and is game for the lionshare of the work.

G

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#1
PerChr
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/01/27 06:08:33 (permalink)
Hi, check out Stewart-MacDonald, they have everything you'll need for building and/or repairs.
http://www.stewmac.com/
 
Per
 
#2
gswitz
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/01/27 07:44:24 (permalink)
Thanks!

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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mettelus
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/01/27 08:18:20 (permalink)
+1 to StewMac, a lot of helpful experienced folks there. Definitely research things beforehand. With a CNC you can get lots of things on the money, but trussrod and fret finishing are sort of an art more than science in some ways.

If doing from scratch, fret setting and curvature are big to get properly set. I lucked out a bit on my "baby" as I choose jumbo bass frets. Getting compound radius by hand sanding is an art (but machining can do this). In my case PLEKing finished it off to perfection. While machining will get close, PLEKing is done with the neck under tension (and not to a straight line). I have .040" clearance at the 24th fret on the high E, which is crazy low.

Also research wiring before you start, since after-the-fact mods can be tedious (especially if more drilling/routing is required and the wood has been finished).

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jeteague
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/01/27 14:56:47 (permalink)
>Mettelus   Where did you go to get your instrument PLECKed?  May I ask what this cost?
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mettelus
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/01/27 19:34:16 (permalink)
jeteague
>Mettelus   Where did you go to get your instrument PLECKed?  May I ask what this cost?




Steve Weber did mine. I wrote up the detail in this post about a year ago. I was specifically looking for shops fairly close (US) that had a machine in house. He is a great guy to talk to, and if looking into getting PLEKing done, I would recommend giving him a call first. Cost for mine was ~$350, but he also pulled/reseated 12 frets, and a few other things I had managed to mess up when rebuilding it in college.
 
Quick Edit: Direct link to Steve's PLEKing page. $235 for PLEKing and $10 for a new nut (a new nut is recommended so the PLEK machine can cut it from scratch, but may not be required). Also, Steve turned my guitar around in a single day (it was out and back home in 5 days, IIRC).
post edited by mettelus - 2016/01/27 20:31:36

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biodiode
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/01/28 05:01:58 (permalink)
Good luck with the project, just don't do it like this fella:- https://youtu.be/TwIvUbOhcKE
 

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Cactus Music
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/01/28 11:45:23 (permalink)
Stew MAc is great and good quailty,,, If you don't mind Made in CHina cheap stuff. this company has some real good sales. They buy out half made guitars from factories in China and sell off the parts. 
http://www.guitarfetish.com/
 
I have had good luck with machine heads , tailpieces and some of there GFI pups. The PUPS needed to be dipped in wax but are on par with many top brands. 
The acoustic guitar sound hole magnetic pup system is one of the best I've every used. 
I just bought a bunch of contact PU's I'm using as drum triggers ,only $12! 
 

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#8
drewfx1
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/01/28 13:32:54 (permalink)
I'm not really a woodworker (I have neither the skill, the tools nor the patience), but I've built lots of parts guitars/basses, but this is what I'd say:
 
If it were me, as a first project I'd probably buy an already fretted neck and get acquainted with things without taking on the additional difficulties with a neck. Your first attempt is unlikely to be just exactly perfect even if it turns out wonderfully. 
 
You might also consider buying a really cheap neck not to use but to practice fretting or whatever on. Necks/bodies from broken guitars and other places can be found out there.
 
In terms of parts, the key is to know exactly what you want, and you will likely find that there are lots of decisions to be made about stuff you had never really considered before. If you ask people, they often will give you strongly worded answers that are really about what they like or believe, but in reality there is more than one right answer to every question. The problem is what's right for me might not be right for you.
 
Understand that you do not need to buy boutique parts or pickups to build a fantastic instrument. And you can often find brand new, or like-new pickups on ebay for cheap, particularly if you are patient.
 
Since it can be difficult to know exactly how things will turn out when building, you might consider find a deal cheap PU's that are a major brand so you can swap them out later if they aren't quite right. If you start with a known commodity, it's easier to know what direction to go in if it isn't quite what you're looking for. 
 
There are lots of places to buy all kinds of parts and I've used many of them. Stew-Mac has lots of nice and sometimes specialized tools too, but they can be expensive. Also keep in mind that when there's a 15% sale or coupon at MF or GC, a number of parts and PU manufacturers are often among the very few major vendors who aren't on the ridiculously long list of excluded items.

 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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jeteague
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/01/28 14:40:41 (permalink)
>mettelus   Thanks for the info and the referral.  You guys are hard core making your own guitars!  (and I thought I was cool to build my computer)
  I will say that if I should build (or buy) an instrument with single coil pickups, I would probably install the new "noiseless" pickups from Fender (for the final build anyway).  I love those things!
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mettelus
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/01/28 20:25:05 (permalink)
@jeteague - You are welcome. I am more of a tinkerer, and that guitar was my first which I got it for next to nothing. The only mechanical alteration I made was the frets, really, and I doubt I have the patience to do one "from scratch" either. Even with electronics alone you can have a field day playing around if you enjoy such things.
 
@gswitz - Drew has a huge point about a pre-made neck, and for a "first" simplicity is easier. Honestly, a pre-made through-body neck (such as a Carvin neck) may be the best starting point. It would yield the best play-ability and sustain (no neck joint), and allow you for any "body design" and electronics you choose. That would probably be the most simple and effective, since that neck by itself is "really it" for the guitar mechanically.
 
 

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gswitz
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/02 19:47:49 (permalink)
NT6 Neck-Through 6-String Replacement Guitar Neck - Carvin  269
Grover Original Rotomatics (102 Series) 3+3 Tuners, 18:1 ratio, chrome  262
Premium Wiring Kit for Gibson Les Paul Guitar, Long-shaft CTS pots and chrome Switchcraft switch  79.42
Golden Age Parsons Street Humbuckers, Bridge, Alnico 2, gold  60.97
Golden Age Parsons Street Humbuckers, Neck, Alnico 2, gold  60.97
 
Total: 732.36
 
I don't have a bridge yet. What other things will I need?
post edited by gswitz - 2016/02/02 20:01:44

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#12
Paul P
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/02 23:00:15 (permalink)
gswitz
I don't have a bridge yet. What other things will I need?



I was going to say tools, tools and more tools.  Then I saw the mention of the CNC machine.
 
So sandpaper should do it.
 

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batsbrew
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/03 11:16:02 (permalink)
a bolt on neck will sound/feel nothing like a les paul.
 
a neck thru guitar,
will not sound/feel like a paul either.
 
if you really want something 'like a paul',
i'd look for a used paul.
 
nothing you can build, is going to come close to that feel.
 
that said, i love bolt on necks more than glue-in long tenon necks, at this point.
but it's an aesthetic thing, that should not be overlooked.
 

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michaelhanson
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/03 12:18:56 (permalink)
batsbrew
a bolt on neck will sound/feel nothing like a les paul.
 
a neck thru guitar,
will not sound/feel like a paul either.
 
if you really want something 'like a paul',
i'd look for a used paul.
 
nothing you can build, is going to come close to that feel.
 

 
I agree with Bat.  A friend of mine was looking to buy a new guitar and he was looking at Carvin's; one of the neck through's.  He had always wanted a LP, but said he felt he could get more for his money through Carvin.  He went with the LP and has been emailing me ever since stating that he is so glad he did.  I love Carvin guitars.  Having own many Gibson LP's over the years...if you want that sound, get the LP.  
 
Used deals are out there.  I was eyeballing a Black Studio for less than $500 (with case), with very little play time, just before Christmas.  

Mike

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drewfx1
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/03 12:45:21 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2016/02/09 21:09:37
gswitz
NT6 Neck-Through 6-String Replacement Guitar Neck - Carvin  269
Grover Original Rotomatics (102 Series) 3+3 Tuners, 18:1 ratio, chrome  262
Premium Wiring Kit for Gibson Les Paul Guitar, Long-shaft CTS pots and chrome Switchcraft switch  79.42
Golden Age Parsons Street Humbuckers, Bridge, Alnico 2, gold  60.97
Golden Age Parsons Street Humbuckers, Neck, Alnico 2, gold  60.97
 
Total: 732.36
 
I don't have a bridge yet. What other things will I need?




You might already have these and not all of these might be necessary in your case, but here is some of my checklist that might apply:
 
vol pots
tone pots
knobs
switches
jack
jack plate/ferrule
wire
tuning machines
strings
bridge/tailpiece
string ferrules
string retainers
straplocks/buttons
 
EDIT: forgot the control cover
post edited by drewfx1 - 2016/02/03 13:07:01

 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/04 22:31:35 (permalink)
I'm going to build these, seriously I'll order a neck from Guitar Fetish for $20, machines $20 , bridge and Pups I have already from other upgrades. Finding the right can will be the tricky part. 
 

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#17
Cactus Music
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/04 22:33:32 (permalink)


Johnny V  
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#18
rsinger
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/05 11:43:29 (permalink)
Hey Bo Diddley ...
 

 
Cigar box guitars rock. Bo used to build these himself.

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mettelus
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/05 20:18:06 (permalink)
Dang, I forgot how truly massive that body was. Quick cutaway on a band saw and you got the "Les Paul feel" right there.
post edited by mettelus - 2016/02/05 23:39:01

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Cactus Music
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/05 22:36:09 (permalink)
This web site is full of insperation for those who are tired of the same old 3 guitars we have been told are what we must have for over 50 years now...
 
http://www.cigarboxnation.com/
 
I have a new reason to go to thrift stores and garage sales now.. looking for broken guitars to scrounge parts...And from now on I'll buy my Olive oil in the big can..

 
 
 

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mettelus
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/05 23:39:56 (permalink)
I can truly appreciate a unique guitar, especially with the work that goes into it (which I think is the true point of the OP). I happened across guitar carving a couple years ago and thought it one of the coolest things I had ever seen; but quickly realized I have no design plan, only one chance to get it right, and no patience for it anyway... but some of them are exceptionally well done.

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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/06 12:03:59 (permalink)
Quite the project!  
I admire folks who can build instruments from scratch.

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
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Ricebug
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/06 12:27:37 (permalink)
Guitarist  Brian May (Queen) and bassist John Entwistle (The Who) built their own instruments.
 
And, if you want to know who built their own synthesizer, check out Silver Apples, a 2-piece psychedelic group of my generation.

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jeteague
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/09 14:35:46 (permalink)
   These home built guitars look like serious fun, although I know some were created by dire necessity.  The music is going to come out!  I'll never look at cans or boxes quite the same way again. 
  >Cactus Music  Keep us informed of your progress on your instrument manufacture.  I am going to get my brother to buy our olive oil in Costco size containers now.
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batsbrew
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Re: Making a guitar 2016/02/09 15:04:56 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2016/02/21 16:05:49
custom axe commissioned - the Williams Special

just thought i'd share, in case anyone else is thinking about custom builds.

The Williams Special
The Williams Special is a Les Paul-Strat-Mustang-Explorer hybrid, with hollow body cavities, Mustang scale length,
built like a paul with mahagony and maple top, with vintage-dimension strat body, explorer headstock.





 
 
(semi-related: my first 'good' guitar was a '75 Fender Mustang.)
This guitar was commissioned in 1986.
It is a Gibson Les paul-Fender strat-Fender mustang-Gibson explorer HYBRID.
-built by Stan Williams, Rome Georgia.
-based on the Fender Mustang scale length at 24.0"....this design is also similar to brian may's red special.
*honduras mahogany body, with air cavities carved in the body below the maple top.
*flame maple top, 3/8" thick.
*vintage-dimension strat body.
*2-piece flame maple neck, with ebony fingerboard.
*no truss rod!
there are (2) rectangular pieces of aircraft aluminum running the length of the fretboard.
*flame maple veneer on headstock; front, sides, and back.
*jumbo frets, nickle alloy
*custom inlays: mother of pearl, diamond shape, with a split diamond around the center pickup.
*Kahler 2300 pro tremelo.
*(3) off/on switches
*master volume, master tone, 3rd pot now unwired-
*Pickups: originally equipped with a EMG SA assembly, and the 3rd knob was the presence control.
--now has (2) bill lawrence L-280's, and a duncan Little 59 humbucker in the bridge.
*explorer headstock shape, true to scale.
*long tenon set neck
*13 degree tilt back headstock
*graphtec nut, with locking kahler nut mounted behind it.


*Wood: the Flame maple used on the top and neck, and veneers, was from a large timber
(139 years old as of 2014) salvaged from a barn in Illinois.
The honduras was acquired long before there were conservation laws on that particular wood
(blank dates back to pre-1980).
___________________________________________________________
design criteria:
the les paul connection:
the basics of the les paul (the obvious basics) are:
slab mahogony body;
maple top;
strings on top of body;
2 piece maple neck;
glued in neck, long tenon;
tilt back headstock, no string trees required.

later, in 2008, they started weight relieving the standards, but remember, i built this in 1986.
so, the Gibson nod starts there.
This one has:
Honduras mahagony body -- maple top -- strings on top of body via the Kahler -- 2 piece maple neck
-- a glued in neck with long tenon -- tilt back headstock.
My design tried to improve on my favorite aspects of the 4 different guitars, the mustang, explorer, strat and paul.

for example:
*the volute on the explorer headstock is inherently stronger than the les paul (commonly known over time for breaks at the neck),
plus i liked the headstock shape

*the weight relief is secondary-- the sound cavities i had routed strictly for that semi-acoustic property,
making the guitar, at stage volume, extremely lively - this followed the basics of the Brian May Red Special,
which was my starting point. his guitar is designed more like a 335 than mine, but i went there as much as i could
without floating the top over a central beam
*the ebony fretboard brings out more les paul-style tonal characteristics than, say, a rosewood fretboard would have
*the glue in neck was a must, and unlike the les paul, which has that awkward heel, mine is smoothed out right into the back of the body, without so
much as a line, almost invisible. the tonal effect with the glued in neck, and the long tenon is an obvious connection to the les paul lineage
*the tilt back headstock was unnecessary with the kahler locking nut, but i added it anyway,
feeling that the downward pressure of the strings still helps to maintain a strong connection to the neck,
vibration wise, and this is very much in les paul territory
*the strings on top, versus thru the body, is a very important link to the overall sound,
and the use of the kahler is a great way to bridge the gap between a stop tailpiece and a floating trem.
*though Kahler did not have it then, they now have a 'hybrid' tailpiece, that can lock as a hard tail, or float as a trem.
best of both. i have one on my '84 Carvin DC200k, and will eventually updgrade this one with one as well.
 
 

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