Helpful ReplyMaking drums BIG

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revnice1
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2018/05/28 03:36:14 (permalink)

Making drums BIG

I want BIG! 
 
With all the latest drum tools are we still supposed to be compressing duplicate tracks bringing them up with the untreated trackes and all that? I want drums like The Best by Tina Turner and I have the latest stuff but I don't know how to get them bigger.
 
Anyone got a reasonably foolproof method? (I'm a pretty good fool)
 
Thanks - rev
#1
thedukewestern
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Re: Making drums BIG 2018/05/28 11:25:58 (permalink)
Thats a great reference track.  It would be hard to not enjoy listening to that=-)  Your talking about a parallel compression technique, right?
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNU3aIJs88g
 
I just took a good listen to that track on youtube.  There's a lot of magic in it.  It doesn't sound too effected.  The drums sound as if they were played really well and consistently.  While I did listen on headphones. I didn't pick up on anything that was too obvious out of the norm, (i.e. tons of compression and verb etc...)
 
The kick sounds really tight, like, its not there to add tons of low end.  Its pointy, but not as much low end as the snare.   Its merely a time reference.  Another example of this type of mix is "I want your Sex" by George Micheal.  If you watched people dance to this, they wouldn't accentuate the 1 and the 3.
 
The snare sound in the track has a REALLY strong note to it, it wouldn't surprise me to find that there was very deliberate tuning to get it in tune with the song, so they could really take advantage of that on mixdown.  If the engineer made the kick sound just as big as the snare, it would take away from the track.
 
The other thing that stood out to me, was, Ill bet if you took other parts of the arrangement away, and/or solo'd the drums, they may not sound as big.  There's a really great groove, which doesn't really come from the drums alone.   Everything is in the pocket.  There's a nice push and pull happening, that you wont get from just drums alone.  I'm hearing two different bass sounds here, there's a 1 (2) And   accent not that has a high end, and an 8th note pulse underneath.  Hard to say if its just 1 bass performance or 2 different ones mixed together.  
 
I've been working with superior drummer libraries a lot in my work, and, I recently picked up the ash soan midi pack, he's a great example of this type of pocket drummer.  Its like, the guy can play straight quarter notes, and somehow it always sounds like its got the perfect pocket!  That's whats happening here in this song.  
 
Its never as hard as you think it is, and once you have 20 million plug ins happening, you know your on the wrong path, and the performance itself needs attention, the source. Before you reach for any type of parallel compression, eq, your better off going right back to your source.  What is your "Time" doing?  If your working in midi, is everything snapped to the grid?  If it is, it probably is boring.
 
I would spend a day trying to reconstruct this groove.  Analyze it, it doesn't need to be something you would release.  But load the reference track into a session.  Are you suffering from memory loss?  What I mean by that is..... does your MEMORY of the songs impact not line up with reality?  When you keep going back to the reference track inside of a session (after you've turned it down of course)  You'll find that its not as big as you may remember it to be, and you'll get a stronger picture of what actually makes it work.  Like, at 44 seconds, what makes that little kick fill work, and how that guitar in the left channel, probably a strat, starts playing the And A of every beat isn't very bright, but it doesnt actually Play the downbeat, shows that the arrangers/ producers, are leaving that part of the groove to the low end.  Just like disco bass.
 
Once you've got a great performance, Here's a few things you can try:
 
Try compressing' processing your kick and bass, or any low end instruments in a low end buss (or aux track).  If you've got kick, and a few bass instruments doing any sidechaining, try sending them all to the same buss before the master, and a little compression and eq goes a long way.
 
In fact, you may do this with midrange as well - why not (?) - rythmn guitars, keys.  An Instrument Buss.  I wouldnt add the snare to this one personally, but i wouldn't hesitate to sidechain from the snare.
 
Now you can have all of your instrument information support your lead information in 2 buss that can be eq'd and compressed around the drums and vocals.
 
Coffee buzz over.....

Be the first one who thinks that you can
 
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#2
Resonant Serpent
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Re: Making drums BIG 2018/05/28 14:02:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby fresh101 2018/05/28 15:36:33
80's drums = Gated Reverb.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gated_reverb

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bdickens
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Re: Making drums BIG 2018/05/28 15:27:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bapu 2018/05/28 15:30:03
For absolutely HUGE drums, put them in the foyer of a large stone house and stick a pair of Beyerdynamic M160s halfway up the stairs.

Byron Dickens
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fresh101
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Re: Making drums BIG 2018/05/28 15:39:52 (permalink)
Resonant Serpent
80's drums = Gated Reverb.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gated_reverb


What he said.
 
Here is a cool Youtube video on the subject.
 
https://youtu.be/Bxz6jShW-3E
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xiwix
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Re: Making drums BIG 2018/05/28 16:24:07 (permalink)
Maybe more on the fool side but amp sim and pitch shifting make drums bigger too.  I accidentally had a basic AD2 patch running through my TC Electronic Voxworks and it sounded big and lively and it took me a minute to figure out what was happening but now I'm doing it just to have an instantly different sound on basic tracking drum patterns.
 
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mettelus
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Re: Making drums BIG 2018/05/28 21:07:27 (permalink)
My first thought was Gated Reverb as well. You can saturate the crap out of things if desired. After you take the time to set that up, be sure to save it as a track template for later.

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BenMMusTech
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Re: Making drums BIG 2018/05/28 22:55:37 (permalink)
I use the tape sim in the Prochannel and Wave's analouge emulation plugs. I will route kick, snare and toms to either an aux track or buss or even both to replicate the signal chain of classic recordings and on those aux and buss tracks I will use a buss compressor and Wave's J37 tape sim. Console emulation too. What you nees to understand is what you're doing is treat the drum tracks as layers and each layer raises the fatness of the drums. You can also use a convolution verb or a stadium verb like on the lexicon, which you would also treat with a compressor or tape sim and even a virtual binaural plug to simulate that huge Zeppelin sound.

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JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Making drums BIG 2018/05/29 10:39:20 (permalink)
I listened to the posted track. The drums didn't jump out as being all that big to me but maybe that's just me. Shrug. At any rate, the answer you seek has already been given. Parallel compression and gate reverb on the snare and/or toms should get you where you want to go. Oh, and you gotta mix it right too. All that compression and reverb won't do squat for you if you let the guitar player bury everything in the mix behind his guitar tracks.

 
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Euthymia
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Re: Making drums BIG 2018/05/29 12:10:23 (permalink)
1. Install this free plug-in: https://www.kvraudio.com/product/rough-rider-by-audio-damage
 
2. If you have a bus for your overheads put the plug-in on it or if not, just put the plug-in on the whole drum bus
 
3. Select the preset "Heavy Duty" and crank the "Sensitivity" and "Make-Up Gain" knobs slowly clockwise until drums sound sufficiently big
 
This provides a good starting point for working with other compressors to get similar results. It's really a bit much for practical use, but it will whomp those suckers. 9:1 ratio, 1.6mS attack, 1.4mS release, 70% mix. Season to taste.

-Erik
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davehorch
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Re: Making drums BIG 2018/05/29 12:34:46 (permalink)
bdickens
For absolutely HUGE drums, put them in the foyer of a large stone house and stick a pair of Beyerdynamic M160s halfway up the stairs.



Zat YOU Jimmy?!

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fitzj
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Re: Making drums BIG 2018/06/04 13:15:05 (permalink)
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