Helpful ReplyManaging projects with Sonar end in mind

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jonboper
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2017/11/28 16:17:50 (permalink)

Managing projects with Sonar end in mind

Like many of you who've been using Sonar for a long time (since Sonar XL, 2001), I have many hundreds of projects backed up with all of my work from the past 16 years. I don't want to lose all of the ideas I've sketched out and fleshed out in all of these projects.
 
I haven't thought about this much (with that lifetime upgrade thing), so a question to those who have: is the best way to ensure that I don't lose my content to go through projects and do mix bounces to wavs, maybe exporting key tracks also?
 
How are you approaching this?

http://smaltmine.bandcamp.com/
https://booleanoperators.bandcamp.com/
 
All music was recorded and all in Sonar.
 
 
#1
Wood67
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Re: Managing projects with Sonar end in mind 2017/11/28 16:40:03 (permalink)
Was thinking the same.  If PreSonus or Steinberg etc wanted the perfect net to catch us, at pretty much any price point they choose, all they need to do is provide an 'Import from Sonar...' addin.  Even if it's just audio/midi tracks, inserts/sends, automation envelopes.
 
A sort of iTunes import facility...

Wood

Studio One 3 Pro, (Sonar Platinum), Intel i7, Win10 Pro, 32Gb ram, RME Babyface Pro, Behringer X-Touch, Presonus Faderport, Akai MPK49, Arturia KeyLab25, KRK Rokit 5 monitors, and other sonic surprises.
#2
KingsMix
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Re: Managing projects with Sonar end in mind 2017/11/28 16:47:55 (permalink)
This already exist in sorts....just import your exported waves files, it's easy.
Start projects over fresh....
If this is your only choice, would you choose not to restart your project that was started in Sonar or would you let your project die? I think there is a mental hurdle to get over Sonar as being the end all be all...it isn't. And this current situation is forcing a lot of longtime Sonar users to come to grips with that. And rot the record I was using Sonar as my main DAW since Sonar 4 Producer Edition through to the Current (end of the line) Sonar Platinum.
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Wood67
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Re: Managing projects with Sonar end in mind 2017/11/28 17:09:37 (permalink)
Fair point.  But most of my work in progress is midi tracks, linked to the VSTi. Waves will be saved, but not the start points, or any FX assigned to them.  It would be great, especially when trying to learn a new DAW, to be able to import the core structure of an existing project.  And I think for a lot of Sonar users it would be a major USP in making a purchasing decision.

Wood

Studio One 3 Pro, (Sonar Platinum), Intel i7, Win10 Pro, 32Gb ram, RME Babyface Pro, Behringer X-Touch, Presonus Faderport, Akai MPK49, Arturia KeyLab25, KRK Rokit 5 monitors, and other sonic surprises.
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Slugbaby
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Re: Managing projects with Sonar end in mind 2017/11/28 17:12:38 (permalink)
I haven't put much thought into it, but my recommendation would be to save backups as OMF.  MOST DAWs will be able to open it.

http://www.MattSwiftMusic.com
 
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Ken Matson
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Re: Managing projects with Sonar end in mind 2017/11/28 17:32:36 (permalink)
Here's my plan having just switched formally to Studio One ....
  1. Anything new I'm doing 100% in Studio One - starting today. SONAR is still loaded and ready to go if I run into problems as I use Studio One for "real" for the first several times.
  2. Anything that had only been tracked (and no more than scratch mixed) in SONAR - I have already exported to waves and pulled into Studio One to be edited/mixed/produced.
  3. Anything still ongoing where I have done a good bit of mix/edit work in SONAR I will finish in SONAR.
  4. I'll keep SONAR going for as long as it can for revisiting old projects as needed.
  5. Anything old that is important enough, or high-probability to be revisited in future, I'll go ahead and export tracks/stems so they are ready to be imported into Studio One if the need arises and SONAR is non-functional. I'll do this structured, but semi-causally - a couple a week - rather than kill myself with some massive export project.
That's my plan.
#6
tenfoot
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Re: Managing projects with Sonar end in mind 2017/11/28 17:33:35 (permalink)
I am exporting each project as a midi file from Sonar then opening it in Studio One. This sets up the tempoo and any midi tracks.I then have Sonar open on one screen, and studio One one the other. I export each track from sonar (raw audio, track as source, no FX) just entering the track number in the name dialogue (Sonar automatically adds the track name to the file). I then refrsh the browser in studio one and drag the file into the appropriate track and time postion in Studio one, which automatically creates a new track with the same name as the file. I then copy fader levels and any EQ/FX that were on the track accross by adding the appropriate plugin in Studio One and transfering a preset. Once you get on a roll its pretty painless.
 
I tried the OMF path with Cubase, but it was a bit of a dogs breakfast to be honest:) Could well be user error on my part,  but I find Cubase suffers from the same convoluted legacy layers issue that Sonar did a few years back. The price of decades of heritage I guess. Swings and roundabouts:)

Bruce.
 
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#7
chuckebaby
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Re: Managing projects with Sonar end in mind 2017/11/28 18:01:24 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2017/11/29 00:48:02
Even if this Cakewalk closing hadn't occurred its still a good idea to perform good housekeeping habits.
I have a few and that includes a few different methods, steps to ensure project have a long healthy lifespan.
 
*- Pre notes about Midi files:
When it comes to Midi within Sonar, all midi files is stored with a .CWP (Cakewalk Project).
What does this mean ? It means if your project is/was to become corrupt and no longer accessible, you will never be able to recover those Midi files.
 
1- Its a good idea to open your projects and Bounce your midi clips using the "Bounce to clips" function.
This takes small clips within the same Midi track and bounces them to one large Midi track. Allowing you to avoid piecing together small fragments of clips to regain an order.
 
2- After you have Bounced to clips all your Midi clips, Export them using the Browser or a Windows Explorer folder. Be sure to name/rename your clips so you know what they are, for example: "Wild thing.Drums".
 
3- You can also use the Export/Midi function but they must be groove clips.
This is the fail safe method to backing up Midi in Sonar.
 
*- Pre notes about Audio files:
 
1- Its a good idea to open your projects and Bounce your Audio clips using the "Bounce to clips" function.
This takes small clips within the same Audio track and bounces them to one large Audio track. Allowing you to avoid piecing together small fragments of clips to regain an order.
 
2- - After you have Bounced to clips all your Audio clips, You will be able to see them in the working Projects Audio folder. You will also see the small clip fragments that have now become one large Audio file.
 
Special Note: You do not lose quality by using the "Bounce to clips" function on Audio clips.
This is not the old analog Tape recorder days when Bouncing tracks lost quality upon each generation.
 
3- Save your project using the "Save as" method. This will save only working files from the project.
The alternative is to use the "Clean Audio folder" function. Keep in mind this will remove take lane data and/or clips that are not within the bounced down tracks.
 
*-Pre notes about the Project:
I always keep a BPM record of every song I create. I also make a hard copy back up using the Track labeling system I created seen here on this thread:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Orginizing-Labeling-Audio-and-Midi-Tracks-m3448904.aspx
 
This includes notes, Tempo maps, Delay times and even bounced down synth tracks.
This is because, when the synth is no longer compatible (DXI plug ins, VST2, EXC) then it will become essential that you always have that Audio back up of a discontinued plug in/compatibility.
 

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#8
Cactus Music
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Re: Managing projects with Sonar end in mind 2017/11/28 19:49:08 (permalink)
I have always saved every project as a MIDI file,, even if there is audio I will have a big chunk of my work in a format that will probably still open 20 years from now. 
Audio is audio so easily imported from your Sonar audio folders to any daw. 
The worst will happen is you'll be using different VST's and Plug ins, those are always improving anyhow. 
Most of my VST's can be used in any daw. 
 
But I will probably be using Sonar for a long time yet and mostly I finnish what I start so for me it doesn't matter. If Sonar way ripped out of my machine tomorrow it would be heartbreaking but not a big deal to carry on. Midi is the answer. 
 

Johnny V  
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#9
mettelus
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Re: Managing projects with Sonar end in mind 2017/11/28 21:08:44 (permalink)
Wood67
Was thinking the same.  If PreSonus or Steinberg etc wanted the perfect net to catch us, at pretty much any price point they choose, all they need to do is provide an 'Import from Sonar...' addin.  Even if it's just audio/midi tracks, inserts/sends, automation envelopes.
 
A sort of iTunes import facility...


That would be a viable option and very welcome. It is one of the killing strokes laid back and forth between Word and Word Perfect back in the day... They would open and save in each other's formats.

Project Scope is already partially there... That would be a nice gift from the Bakers, the definitive cwp file format.

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#10
jonboper
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Re: Managing projects with Sonar end in mind 2017/11/29 00:43:10 (permalink)
These are some good, practical tips. Thanks all. I admire your pep through it Cactus - I should adopt that attitude.
 
In the coming months it would be helpful to have stickys on how to save synths, fx, projects, samples...all the stuffs.

http://smaltmine.bandcamp.com/
https://booleanoperators.bandcamp.com/
 
All music was recorded and all in Sonar.
 
 
#11
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