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Map Gain to Midi Contoller
Hi out there!
I hope to get your help with this issue... We are using Sonar X3 Producer "live on stage", love it and just got a Midi Gain Controller on the stage now ().
Appsys provides a VST and external programs to control it, but I´d rather map the gain knob within Sonar to control the gain.
Is it possible to write gain changes to a certain Control Change (CC) messages? How??? Any help is appreciated!
Thanks and greetings,
Andy
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John
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/21 09:38:09
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Try using ACT and use MIDI learn to map your controller to Sonar.
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succeed
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/21 09:55:39
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Mmmm. But I need it the other way around: I want to control the physical gain controller on stage using midi cc commands send from the channels gain knob from Sonar... You can find the controller product here:
appsys(.)ch/en/products/remotegaincontroller
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John
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/21 10:18:19
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OK I see. Here I would not worry about MIDI CCs. The VST should send the right data to the controller. What you may need to do is set up the VST to output to the right port that has the controller on it.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/21 10:23:36
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Well, what does the documentation for the product indicate, as far as it responding to incoming MIDI messages?
I would think a CC 7 for volume would be it, but it could be other values - it's whatever their device responds to, if I am understanding what you are trying to do.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/21 10:30:56
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I see from the doc from the link you posted: - Manual setup: Gain is adjusted via standard "Control Change" messages. The default scheme is:
MIDI Channel = Preamp, CC = Input, Value = Gain. E.g.
MIDI Channel 2 = Preamp 1, CC 24-31 = Input 1-8, Gain = Value 0-127 MIDI Channel 3 = Preamp 2, CC 24-31 = Input 1-8, Gain = Value 0-127 MIDI Channel 4 = Preamp 3, CC 24-31 = Input 1-8, Gain = Value 0-127 Above mapping can be further adjusted via SysEx commands, please refer to the manual. The above seems to me what you are trying to do, so you would be essentially trying to map the gain knobs on some channel strips to send the gain values to your device? So, if that is correct, then you need to map the midi data output from each associated channel's gain knob to send midi gain values through a specific CC # (24-31), with channel 1 getting mapped to CC 24, channel 2 mapped to CC 25, etc.. Is THIS what you are trying to do? Please explain your actual goal, so I can make sure I am giving you information that applies to what you are attempting - thanks, Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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succeed
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/21 10:33:52
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Cheers Bob!
Yes, that is exactly what I want to do... :-)
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/21 10:34:08
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I guess what I don't understand is why you wouldn't just set your input gain to start with, and if you needed to adjust an individual channel's gain in Sonar, why not just adjust it in Sonar? You are already seeming to want to turn the channel gain knobs to generate midi data to control volume, or am I REALLY missing something?
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/21 10:41:46
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We are using three (temperature wise modified) Behringer ADA8000 ADAT controllers for input and output on stage. Each one of the 24 channels has a separate hardware gain control potentiometer. We modified the hardware and installed opto-couplers to be able to control all 24 "hardware gains" via Midi commands from the control seat way of the stage...
post edited by succeed - 2014/03/21 11:11:30
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/21 10:53:52
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To make it short term:
I want to use the Sonar gain knobs to control the "real world" gain knobs via midi CC commands.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/21 11:14:03
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OK - thanks for clarifying/confirming my understanding of your goals.
I am away from Sonar at the time being, but later on today (about 4 hours), I will jump into it and see if I can help you get this going - maybe someone can help you before that (he asks hopefully)....
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/21 11:21:04
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Ok, Bob!
That sounds great! Thank you so much...
Andy
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swamptooth
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/22 00:47:03
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hi andy. there's no way to do this using the gain knobs as they send no midi data. using the sliders from midi tracks isn't an option either, because they send only midi cc7 data which would require a 3rd party tool to remap the cc#s based on channel. a 32 bit plug has other limitations as well. one possible solution would be to insert the plugin then use the automation lanes to insert a series of controls for each of the individual gains as shown here:  then, you can use each of the sliders in the track view to control the gain knobs in the vst. i think you might only be able to fit 15 at a time on it with a full hd screen. you can also right-click each parameter slider and click "remote control" then midi-learn a cc from a physical controller. hth.
Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/22 12:00:42
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Yeah - I couldn't figure any way to do this backwards, outside of some 3rd-party program involvement.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/24 17:56:32
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Mmmmmm.... It´s not exactly perfect, but at least an option. Thank you for your support!
We have our first "digital" live gig next Saturday with a Windows 8.1 64bit machine, 16GB RAM, Sonar X3e Producer, a RME RayDAT card, two 64-Channel Appsys ADAT Multicore Extenders, modified Behringer ADA8000´s on stage and the Appsys Remote Gain Controller as well.
So far it runs very stable, at least during practicing. The fantastic RME ASIO driver is configured with 64 samples buffer and we use 18 input channels and 6 output channels for now. All that with less than 6ms (!!!) overall latency. It´s amazing! No problem of any kind so far.
Hopefully the gig goes as well... ;-) I will let you know how it went.
Andy
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swamptooth
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/24 23:26:03
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Arvid H. PetersonSonar X3E Prod / X2A / X1PE | Cubase 9.5.1 | Reason 9.5 | Sibelius7 | Pure DataNative-Instruments Komplete 10 Ultimate and a smattering of other pluginsHome-brewed VSTs Toshiba Satellite S855-S5378 (16GB RAM, modified with 2x 750GB HDDs, Windows 8.1 x64) Samson Graphite 49, M-Audio Oxygen 49, Korg nanoPAD2, Webcam motion tracking programs M-Audio Fast Track UltraMember, ASCAP
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succeed
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/31 03:14:22
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Yes, it worked just perfectly. Not a problem at all. Easy setup, a great sound and a happy audience. The other band members were very skeptical before ("We never did it that way.... blah blah blah") but the result did even convince them. And - thanks to Sonar - an easy multi-track live recording is now just a mouse click away.........
Keep rockin´
Andreas
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tacman7
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/03/31 10:33:57
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I wanted to ask you about:
We are using three (temperature wise modified) Behringer ADA8000
I used to have one of those but it got hot and died.
What did you do to modify them?
Thanks
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succeed
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Re: Map Gain to Midi Contoller
2014/04/01 02:48:40
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Hi there! The layout and positioning of some voltage regulators inside the ADA´s are poorly designed thus problematic. (I mainly followed Andreas Lembkes´ German directions to optimize the ADA´s.) All you need is some time, one new voltage regulator (type "LT1084 CP-5" incl. isolation material - cost approx. $8 to $10), a soldering iron, an aluminum sheet (about 300 x 35 x 6 mm) and skill. ;-) Please follow these instructions completely on your own risk: - Remove power cable and open the ADA.
- Use the soldering iron to remove the three 7805 voltage regulators as shown in picture 1.
- Carefully remove the two voltage regulators (LM7815 and LM7915) incl. their cooling element as shown in the bottom of picture 2.
- Remove the cooling elements from the regulators.
- Mount the aluminum sheet on the casing, as shown in pictures 2 and 3. You may use some heat sink paste.
- Attach the LT1084, LM7815 and LM7915 voltage regulators to the aluminum sheet. Use heat sink paste and make sure, that the regulators are electrically isolated to the aluminum.
- Carefully solder all cables as shown in the pictures.
That´s it. I found no difference in functionality, but the temperature sank from 90C/190F to 35C/95F !!!! Since it has been done, I have reliable and affordable units. After hours of operation the ADA´s just get lukewarm. Let me know how it goes... Keep cool, ;-) Andreas   
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