Master Bus Compression - Do you use it?

I do.

My Mastering Chain consists of 4 T-Racks3 modules in series:

Pultec style EQ
Linear Phase EQ
Classic Compressor
Brickwall Limiter

Once I'm allowed to spend any more money , I'll be getting IK's Black 76 &  White 2A plugs and see what I can do with these

I try to start the tune without anything on the Master Buss other than ARC2. I will add as things get more finished.

I will do some light compression on the master bus for some "mix" glue.

Nope, not at all.  

What goes on my master bus during the composition/mix/production stage is, "a brick wall limiter."  But it is not for master buss compression.  To protect my ears, and monitors

Also on my master buss during mix/production might be some metering, and some mix tools like, "bx solo."  Everything is taken off my master bus when I render my mix, before the actual mastering stage.  I do use, "bus compressors," but mostly on buses where I have sent many tracks. 



Then during post production, I have a mastering process I follow.

  That only means, that I do not like master bus compression.  I find it to, "take the air from my mids, and over pump my bass."  YMMV...   It could very well be, that the way I design my sounds, do not take to this philosophy of compression...  

There are certainly, thousands, upon thousands of tracks, that sound great with this, "master bus compression," but its not for me.

Cheers 

Depends on the song. What I wouldn't do, though, is use an 1176-style compressor on the master bus. IMO, that's for individual tracks, not busses. But then, I'm a conservative when it comes to compressor usage.

If you want to try something different, throw the Sonitus Multiband on the master. With gentle settings it will make smooth songs even smoother, and with very aggressive settings will help maximize your volume if that's what you're after.

Yes, quite often, set VERY light.  As mentioned above, as a little "glue" to the overall mix.

There's always a compressor or 2 and limiter on the master buss. Whether it's engaged or not is another question.
In other words, it's there and I turn it off and on as the need arises to hear what's going on. 

What about a situation where you can use slight compression over the mix and it does not add any colouration to the sound at all but it still provides this nice slight compression sound.

Firstly Anderton mentions in another thread he does not use compressor in the mastering process sometimes but I firmly believe that when you apply even very light compression to a stereo mix it seems to just do something that is very hard to describe but I can feel it a lot. And I like it too.

I have got a Yamaha digital mixer and the good thing about those is all the processes which can be applied on every input and output. The stereo buss had got this very nice compressor on its output if you need it. It is very transparent and does not alter EQ at all. In fact it is so good like that you don't have to be concerned with any EQ changes that might result from using it. Still can be set for low ratio and light compression -2 to -3dB GR. Slowish attack too so transients get through nicely.

How does it sound? Very nice and it seems to add this layer of smoothness to the mix that I find very hard to describe and you don't hear it until you put a compressor like this onto the mix either. You can get a slight rms level boost in your overall mix from this stage too maybe 2dB or so. If you still use a mastering compression you need to take into account if this 2 buss compression has been used and the audio print you are working with has it on. As ratios multiply it just means lowering the mastering compressor ratio a tad to allow for it. 

I am like Danny too in that I print many things without it but I find for the right situation it is nice to use as well. I find it helps getting a loud master later as well for a client.

I don't agree with mixing right into a heavy mastering chain from the start because it means you will never be able to do a great mix without it and you should learn to make fantastic sounding mixes with absolutely no mastering on them what so ever. It develops and tightens up your skills at track and buss levels. The other bad thing about it is it never allows that music to be mastered by a better mastering engineer than you because the music is already mastered and you have just made it impossible to master. I think that doing a fantastic mix first then waiting a week (and really hearing that mix too and you will want to change it!) and setting up a classy mastering chain later and hearing it all fresh too is very hard to beat. If you have the music printed at a pre mastered level there are so many options for later remastering as well.

I use the Classic EQ highpassing at like 30Hz, Opto Compressor or the Fairchild 670 followed by ARC. I like it and do it often, but not on everything.

Danny, I'm interested by your hardware/software comment. You say you don't see the point of using software because the don't add color, and only hardware compressors add color. But wouldn't a software compressor that is trying to emulate a hardware compressor also emulate this color to some degree anyway, thus be good for the purpose still? Obviously don't want this to turn into a hardware vs software thread as there are far too many of them out there. Just that any shootouts of hardware vs software that I listen to, although they don't always sound exactly the same, all tend to at least get a general grasp on the color of the compressor it's trying to emulate. It may only get 80% there or be slightly different too, but it might be totally acceptable too? Just cause something sounds different to the real thing, doesn't mean it's a worse color, just that it's a DIFFERENT color. It could arguably sound better in certain applications.

Jeff, what kind of quality difference are you talking about here? The way it handles complex transients dynamically, artefact degradation, noise, or just a bad 'colour' to the audio? Are you able to be more specific, or would you say it's a case of 'all of the above'?

But yeah, I'm talking really mixing INTO the compressor. I actually like the feel of how the riders fight the sound a bit. I like to automate pretty much all my volumes of all tracks so to ride them into the compressor feels really natural and musical for me. I think maybe not doing so could destroy some of the balance and dynamic feel I'm trying to get out of the piece come mastering time - especially as I do my own mastering and and certainly no pro. It might save me a bit in that regard. On the other hand, if I was mixing a dance song, I highly doubt I would mix into a compressor. It doesn't make near as much sense to me there because the dynamics are often different, or at least the way I see them to work. But that's just me.

I like the protection limiter and I have done that one for a while. Just got to be careful you don't hit it accidentally! I was using Boost for a while as my protection till I realised it sounded like ass. I should get this concrete limiter I keep hearing about...

Too tired to remember what exactly I was going to say now so I'll leave it at that and go to bed!

mattplaysguitar


Danny, I'm interested by your hardware/software comment. You say you don't see the point of using software because the don't add color, and only hardware compressors add color. But wouldn't a software compressor that is trying to emulate a hardware compressor also emulate this color to some degree anyway, thus be good for the purpose still? Obviously don't want this to turn into a hardware vs software thread as there are far too many of them out there. Just that any shootouts of hardware vs software that I listen to, although they don't always sound exactly the same, all tend to at least get a general grasp on the color of the compressor it's trying to emulate. It may only get 80% there or be slightly different too, but it might be totally acceptable too? Just cause something sounds different to the real thing, doesn't mean it's a worse color, just that it's a DIFFERENT color. It could arguably sound better in certain applications.

Matt, I'll try to explain this as best as I can. When you record into, or run audio into a hardware device, it literally does something to the sound coloration wise that I haven't heard from any plugs yet. There is something about how the audio goes through the live circuitry that to me and others, makes a pretty incredible difference.
 
It reacts to the sound that is sent into it differently than when you add a plug to an already recorded track. Though modeling has come a long way, I can assure you, you end up with a much different sound and experience when you literally process through a hardware piece in real time as opposed to adding a plug that's been modeled.
 
Of all the plugs that I have tried that claim "tube saturation" or "warmth" to me it is NOT the same sound you get from hardware pieces. I sometimes wonder if the guys making these plugs may be in their 20's and may not have even used real hardware or we wouldn't be as far away as we are with this stuff. That said, of all the companies, UAD in my honest opinion, is the closest to having it down. I say this due to having some of the hardware they have simulated as well as still having a 16 track 1 inch and a 24 track 2 inch for tape machines here. I know how they sound and how they react. Tape saturation/hardware saturation does NOT come by way of ugly digital clipping. That's how these plugs sound to me. You don't get that sound out of a hardware piece even if you use it to the extreme. It's a different type of clipping and before it gets there, the "golden" sound you get hasn't been done in any plugs I've tried other than some of the UAD stuff.
 
That said, when you mix into a compressor that has coloration or a GOOD saturation sound, your outcome is much different than if you used a digital compressor. I find absolutely no change in my sound coloration wise when using a regular digital comp plug. Turn off a hardware comp running through your system, and the tone literally changes due to it passing through the circuitry. This in turn forces you to come up with a different eq curve than you would have without it. That is the purpose of it. To color and lightly compress/glue the mix AS you mix. If you were to turn off this hardware comp in the middle of mixing your song, your tonality in the mix will change also. This is not the case with digital comp plugs in MY experience. They compress and that's it. They don't alter the tone to where you would notice tonality changes in your mix if you killed them.
 
That said, I'm sincerely not trying to make this sound like I'm "pro hardware". I am not and am happy I sold a lot of my stuff due to how the UAD and other plugs process. I'm not really into "the coloration thing" to be honest. I am not crazy about warm, analog tone. To me, those tones died in the 70's....I appreciate the broad frequency range we have now with tighter subs and high end air that you would never hear back in the days of classic rock etc. I like mixes that aren't so warm that allow some highs to give things more impact. I hate when things are so warm, a snare drum sounds like you're hitting a cardboard box or a bass has no "ting" or percussive attack to it. I hate when a guitar sounds like the word "yug" (darker) instead of the word "yah". (brighter)
 
That said, people will hate what I like...and that's ok. The point is, if you REALLY want to mix INTO a compressor, it's only fair that you do it that correct way which is what started the whole thing. To answer your question about a digital comp being better in certain situations, most definitely! But for a 2-bus situation where you are supposed to mix into a colored compressor, it's a night and day difference that you would need to try for yourself.
 
Like Jeff and that C2 he loves so much. Nothing compares to that thing. Seriously. From him using that so often, he is spoiled. There aren't too many plug comps that can even be "acceptable" compared to that compressor. I would like to hear his thoughts about the Fatso Jr. or Fatso Sr. though because in my opinion, they would be the closest as they really do a nice job with compressing as well as a full range of controlled coloration. And it doesn't just sound like a filter on the plug to control highs and lows...it literally changes the sound as it pumps through the Fatso. The more you use, the more you hear it effect tonality instead of just compressing. This is the comp I use when I DO use the 2-bus thing.
 
But when I'm not, I would rather have nothing on my master bus. I'll handle all that at the mastering stage and really do not feel it is necessary for me to process a mix with any type of compression other than what goes on my tracks individually. If I had to rely on a compressor on my master bus to make me think it sounds that much better than without (and this is not me having a go at you or anyone else, honest) I'd definitely take a different approach to my mixing strategy. I can get away with no compression on any of my tracks other than the small amount I record with using hardware gear. I like to condition my signal slightly to keep things at -6 dB so I lightly comp at about -1 dB of gain reduction (give or take, sometimes more sometimes less depending on the sound and performance) with a 2:1 ratio or sometimes a 1.5:1 going in on just about everything.
 
Anyway, I hope some of this explains things better for you. All I can say is if you had like a Manley Slam or an ELOP or even a real Fairchild, you'd know what I mean when you mix through them and then use a plug. The marketers may claim "it's near exact!" but trust me bro...we still have a long way to go on some of this stuff in my professional opinion as well as my years of experience with this stuff. But if something works for you and it sounds good, stick with it. I just wanted to point out the "old way" method of doing this as well as WHY it was (and still is) done that way. :)
 
-Danny 

I begin ALL tracking and mixing with the end in mind. So there may be compression, widening, EQ, and other stuff in the master under the cover of OZONE... As I add tracks, I immediately add the plugs I think are needed to the tracks or in many cases .... plugs are not needed so not added. But as I work I hear what this project will sound like.