dr. sticky
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Master Level vs Mix Level
I'm at final mix and was not watching closely to the master level which is about 4.9 in the red at times.
I've got a lot of envelopes and set levels that if I adjust will make the mix difficult to replicate. I was thinking of doing a Process> Audio> GAIN decrease on the entire mix.
Or pull the Master level down?
Anyone care to discuss disadvantages of either or alternatives?
Thanks,
Dr. Sticky (SONAR 8.5)
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/12 03:34:25
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You'd be much better off by reducing (in your case by at LEAST 9db) the levels of all your tracks.
Read up on using offset mode - this will help for those tracks which contain envelopes
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bitflipper
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/12 13:41:03
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At this stage, I would advise against changing any track levels. That could cause all kinds of problems with your mix, as you'll be changing the levels going into any compressors or limiters.
Your best bet now would be to simply turn down the trim on your master bus.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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DaveA
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/12 13:52:32
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bitflipper
Your best bet now would be to simply turn down the trim on your master bus.
Assuming that all your tracks (and buses) are routed out through your master bus
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dr. sticky
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/12 17:14:54
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Thanks american and british friends! Not much going on with compressors and such so I took Bristol's advice.
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pathos
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/13 08:46:37
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Mistakewalk
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/13 11:04:54
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4.9 in the red at times shouldn't be a problem should it, as long as you're not clipping the master? I have mixes that are still very dynamic even though they frequently go even higher into the red.
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bitflipper
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/13 15:29:35
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+4.9db shouldn't be a problem, as long as it's brought down before the final output. But it should be lowered at the input side of the master bus rather than the output side, so that the signal hitting your final limiter is down around -12db or so.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Mistakewalk
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/13 20:42:59
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bitflipper
+4.9db shouldn't be a problem, as long as it's brought down before the final output. But it should be lowered at the input side of the master bus rather than the output side, so that the signal hitting your final limiter is down around -12db or so.
Do you mean the final signal hitting the limiter should be around -12db RMS? Also, why would a project that is occasionally hitting +4.9db need to be brought down before the final output? Or can you clarify by way explaining how you would accomplish this? Sorry, I'm probably misunderstanding something here. Mistakes are common.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/14 05:23:22
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If your master bus is set at 0db, +4.9db on your master bus IS clipping the output.
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Blogman
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/14 05:50:06
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Highlight all of your tracks, press O (offset mode), then hold down CTRL and slide the volume down atleast 6db on any one of the highlighted tracks. This will offset the volume of all tracks post automation and all, eliminating clipping, providing headroom. Press O again to return from offset mode. I do this when I start the mix process, then usually again during.
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Mistakewalk
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/14 09:30:33
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Bristol_Jonesey
If your master bus is set at 0db, +4.9db on your master bus IS clipping the output.
Doh! Meant -4.9 db. When OP said 4.9 in the red I took that to mean just below zero(red on the meter). Dr. sticky - did you mean +4.9 on the master?
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drewfx1
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/14 11:22:55
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Blogman
Highlight all of your tracks, press O (offset mode), then hold down CTRL and slide the volume down atleast 6db on any one of the highlighted tracks. This will offset the volume of all tracks post automation and all, eliminating clipping, providing headroom. Press O again to return from offset mode. I do this when I start the mix process, then usually again during.
If you do this after you have started mixing, any level dependent effect used (not just dynamic processors) will change. And there is absolutely no advantage to lowering each track vs. just reducing the input gain (AKA trim) of the bus. Reducing the input gain of the bus allows you to keep your mix 100% identical, prevents any excessive signal from hitting the bus FX bin, and prevents clipping at the output. And IMHO, it's also much quicker and easier.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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bitflipper
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/14 11:56:16
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Once again, drewfx1 supplies the best answer.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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drewfx1
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/14 12:29:57
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bitflipper
Once again, drewfx1 supplies the best answer.
Though I appreciate it, I thought I was pretty much reiterating what you already said...
In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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tunekicker
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Re:Master Level vs Mix Level
2011/03/21 02:59:35
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Doing this at the trim knob for the Master buss is the best as mentioned. One unmentioned reason for doing this is that adjusting track faders will not accurately adjust all levels if you are using pre-fader FX sends. When using these pulling down the track fader does not adjust the volume to the send, so you'll get inaccuracies there, too.
The common point of confusion in this discussion usually centers around whether to adjust the master trim or the master fader in this case. The fader is more visible, so people will often adjust it this way. This is perfectly fine IF no plugins are used on the Master buss. If plugins are involved you do not want to use the Master fader for this as you could still overdrive the plugins in the chain and audibly distort the signal even while the meter for the master shows no overs.
Pulling down the master trim does not have this variable so it is the better habit to build.
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