Mastering Signal Chain (ADVICE TAKEN)

But the BBE before Ozone.

Jeff Evans


Dave is right about putting the volume maximising last.

But can I just say that why do you need the Sonic Maximiser. Here is an interesting experiment. Find the position on those two controls that do not change the EQ of the music in any way ie perfectly flat. I found on the hardware unit it was at 11 O Clock too BTW.

Are you mixes needing the BBE to make them brighter and deeper. When you get the EQ right (flat) listen to a quality mix and switch the BBE in and out. I found the bypassed sound was actually better and a slightly higher integrity. Then no matter what you do with the low or Hi controls you would not use it then because it is going to make your mix actually sound worse. And when you start boosting up high and down low I think it gets even more worse.

Very slight amounts of EQ for example can make a huge difference and if you use a quality 64 bit plugin that is linear phase the rest of the music won't change at all, it will stay great. EQ like +0.4 db from say 1.5 Khz to 4 Khz. Very gentle and broad curve upward. Then a slight shelf from 8 Khz upward of about +1.5 db or so. Your whole mix will be just clearer and push through an amazing amount. All this without any BBE help.

Maybe think a quality EQ instead of the BBE prior to Ozone compressor and limiter. And spend the time really working that compressor to get the music through it sounding great.

LOL I was going to reply to this thread hours ago and figured I better not say anything due to my dislike for the BBE. But since Jeff sort of summed up what I was going to say....I'll just share this with you, Butch. The one thing you'll notice if you use the BBE a bit extreme (and most people do) is it cuts out all the good mids in your material and adds either razor sharp highs, sub lows or both at once. There's no happy medium...and to me it doesn't "excite" anything. It makes your mix smaller and removes mids that you need. That said, when I was first learning how to do this stuff years ago, I did somewhat borrow the BBE to listen to the amount of mids I had going on. If you set the high and the low both at a notch below 2 and click it on and off, it will give you an idea on the mids it is removing. Keep in mind though...this is just a test to listen for your mids....I never would process with the BBE. The good thing about using it this way is you'll be able to tell if you have too much mid-range congestion within your mix and you'll be able to tell whether the BBE is removing too much. From my experience with the BBE, it removed from 500Hz up to about 900 Hz.
 
From here once you get a general idea on what your mids are sounding like while toggling the BBE off and on, you use a real eq and attempt to find out where in the mids the BBE is affecting the signal. This way you literally have control over how much mids you are working with. With the BBE, it just strips them out all the time and you don't want that. Sometimes we are unaware of how warm we are attempting to make a mix. Using the BBE like I mentioned using the settings I mentioned will give you a rough idea as to what's going on there. But don't leave it on and use it...trust me when I tell you. You want control over the things it is doing and in a mastering situation, totally killing mids, adding subs and harsh high end is not the key to a great final master. But I did use the BBE as a monitoring tool until I learned what to listen for as far as too much mid range in a mix. Once I knew what to listen for and knew where those frequencies come in, I didn't use the BBE anymore. Regardless of what it appears to sound like to you and what the ad's say about it....there's nothing in the BBE that a good eq can't get with way more control. But if you're hell bent on using it...just be careful. You'll find out in time "that Danny guy was right". :)
 
Here's another situation for you real quick. Years ago when the BBE came out, it was of course supposed to be the competition for the Aphex Aural Exciter. Then some joker decided to put one in his guitar rig and everyone started using them there as well. I jumped on the band wagon because everyone was bragging about this thing. I bought the hardware unit and put it in my rig. I used it for about 3 weeks thinking it was fair...but something was missing in my tone that used to be thicker. I turned it off and my tone was thick again. It does this same thing to a full mix. Removing those mids removes your thickness. Granted, 75% of the time when I master material for clients...they warm things up so much I have to remove a little mids due to some of it congesting the material a bit. That BBE just totally can make things smaller and more abrasive if you're not careful. That's what it did to my guitar tone as well as the mixes I've tried it on. Using it in moderation is barely using it at all...like each dial on 1 or something...or 1 1/2. As soon as you go over that near 2 setting I mentioned...in comes the sub low bass the harsh high end and your mids are just about gone. I don't mean to sound like I'm bagging on this plug....especially if you like it....I'm just sharing my experience with you. Good luck.
 
-Danny

and to think i was about to pick up the BBE sonic sweet. clarify are you saying not to use this plugin at all or just during mastering?

Well, really anything's legal when it comes to effects. If you put it on your accordion track and like it, then as they say - if sounds good...but it's probably not much use on a master bus.

It's been quite awhile since this topic's come up, but in years past BBE has been an occasional hot-button issue. There are some who use it on every project and defend it whenever it gets trashed on a forum. I think, though, that a poll of experienced practitioners would reveal a strong anti-BBE consensus.

Hello all,
 
Short version:  The BBE was making the bottom end loud and muddy.  I turned off the low process and it sounded better.  Then I cut a little with Ozones EQ at 250 and it cleared up even more.  Then I tried to match the sound of the BBE high process with that same EQ.  I got close, but the BBE just sounded a little more "3D".  However, the strictly EQ version sounds a little less "processed"..imagine that!  So I am still tweaking and just one step away from ditching the BBE.  I guess I just wasn't confident in my skills, so I thought that the BBE could do a better job than I could...maybe not!
 
Thanks again!

Jeff Evans


Dave is right about putting the volume maximising last.

But can I just say that why do you need the Sonic Maximiser. Here is an interesting experiment. Find the position on those two controls that do not change the EQ of the music in any way ie perfectly flat. I found on the hardware unit it was at 11 O Clock too BTW.

Are you mixes needing the BBE to make them brighter and deeper. When you get the EQ right (flat) listen to a quality mix and switch the BBE in and out. I found the bypassed sound was actually better and a slightly higher integrity. Then no matter what you do with the low or Hi controls you would not use it then because it is going to make your mix actually sound worse. And when you start boosting up high and down low I think it gets even more worse.

Very slight amounts of EQ for example can make a huge difference and if you use a quality 64 bit plugin that is linear phase the rest of the music won't change at all, it will stay great. EQ like +0.4 db from say 1.5 Khz to 4 Khz. Very gentle and broad curve upward. Then a slight shelf from 8 Khz upward of about +1.5 db or so. Your whole mix will be just clearer and push through an amazing amount. All this without any BBE help.

Maybe think a quality EQ instead of the BBE prior to Ozone compressor and limiter. And spend the time really working that compressor to get the music through it sounding great.

Jeff, you nailed this one, and I wish I new this 5 years ago!

I don't need the posts like Ben does... and I'm late to the party as usual.....

I don't have the BBE thing so I can speak about it. 

I do have Ozone 3&4. I use them in the master buss all the time.... usually 4 on a custom preset that gets tweeked every time from the preset starting point. 

I find that quite often I will tun off the loudness maximizer. By doing so, the music seems to "breathe' more. It's basically a big compressor (as I understand it) and with it on, yeah the music is louder, but the dynamics get all shot to hell and the wave looks like the classic brick. By turning it off, the brick disappears and the music gains some dynamic range.  

When I get to the final stage of mixing and mastering.....where I am about to say "it's done" I will often pop the Ozone 4 GUI back on the screen (the one in the master buss) and see what modules I have on or off.  I will shut the ones off that are on, one by one, as I listen to the mix. If there is not a major difference I will very often simply leave it off. ...and of course vice versa as well. Generally if something is off, it's off because it did not make any sort of positive contribution to the final sound of the mix. 

and yeah I use O3/4 in the tracks too as needed. Same rules apply there.