Mastering Tips Needed Please!!!

Maybe this will help?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH1NbFY7PvE

Or this?

http://www.youtube.com/re...ring+in+sonar&aq=f

Sometimes the kick will only knock so hard after the mastering stage. It may be that the kick needs to knock harder in the mix. Then adjust slightly in the mastering stage.

Is the kick being sent to its own bus? Or a drum bus? EQ'd to eliminate some sub low end and Compressed there?  PX64 percussion strip on the kick? Pro Channel on the track? On the bus? Which Pro Channel? Or how about side chaining the kick for extra definition? All that's done before mastering.

Just sayin that if your kick's not kickin before mastering, it may not kick after mastering, unless you overdo the mastering process.

And I read you have zero budget which sucks because Ozone 4 will get you some really really good mastering tools but even Ozone may not get your kick a kickin if it's weak in the mix.

Thanks for the advice guys... That's just it... The mix sounds great and knocks just right but as soon as I master the track and compare it to a pro mix I am no where near as close to there punchiness and level on the overall mix.

+1 on John's recommendation on reading Izotope's mastering guide. If your mix sounds good but you only want to make it sound louder, just use Boost 11 in Sonar. There are plenty of books on mixing out there. You should also check out Groove 3's tutorial videos.

To continue with what Undertow is saying loudness alone is not going to add punch. That is a transient property. The louder the level is the more squashed the dynamics become. That means the transients are at the same level as the rest of the sounds making then become much less noticeable. You want to increase the transients impact so watch how much you are compressing and the settings on the compressor. Let the sharp hit transients get through and the punchyness will increase.   

get wavelab 7

Off the top of my head some tips that MIGHT help you....

note: the tips are strictly offered as a personal way of working, not a professional standard or panacea and they are just my personal way of working after years of fiddling.
note 2: the tips are purposed for techno, house, minimal music - havent really tried them on hip hop, but I guess we still are talking about electronic music so I cant see why they couldnt apply

the problem: you have to compress-limit the hell out of your track but you still want a fat loud punchy kick
the solution:
Route all your tracks except the kick drum track to a buss - call it submaster for ease of locating afterwards. Do route any other busses, send effects, submixes to that bus too. Put a Sonitus compressor on that bus and route the kick drum to its sidechain input. Apply fast attack and use your ears for the decay.
Route that "submaster" to your master and apply a compressor with rather slow attack and fast release. Then apply any EQing or whatnot (if I were you I would also apply some mild stereo imaging on the highs track to give it that "pro sounding" stereo image - only on the highs and not too much. Use a limiter as the last FX on your master chain.

The sidechained sounds will duck when the kick well ermmm "kicks" (lol) so that gives you more freedom to limit the hell out of the track but still retain a loud punchy kick.

final tip: use your ears on as many audio systems as you can grab - be in (freinds hi-fi, car hi-fi, club system, cheep computer speakers)

edit: PS: I wouldnt touch a multiband compressor unless I EXACLTY knew what Im going to "fix" with it - the problems of wrong usage of it are too many - if you insist however, make sure you use very "mild" settings and look at it rather like a "dynamic EQ" than a "compressor".

UnderTow

DSProductionz



I just finished recording, mixing and editing my friends album and I am ready to start the mastering process.

Do you have another studio to do this in? Otherwise you are likely to just exacerbate any acoustic issues in your studio or monitoring.

 I was wondering if anyone can share some effects processing chains I can use for mastering?

There is no typical processing chain for mastering. Every job needs to be treated individually. (And don't believe any of the marketing led stuff you might find).

Level - Not as loud and up front (punch, warm and present) as the professional mixes.

Punch and level are actually diametrically opposed principles. The more level (loudness) you achieve, the less punch it will have. I understand that you want to make it competitively loud but if your mix is lacking punch, spend more time on the mix! Get it to sounding as good as you want before you even consider making things louder (or anything to do with mastering really).

EQ>Multiband Compression>Limiter ???

In general it is impossible to say without hearing the music. There is no one-size-fits-all in mastering. Secondly, multi-band compression is only really needed if there are major issues with the mix (in this case, just go back to fixing the mix as you have full access to everything).

I feel like my chain is a little limited and is lacking something that can bring a bit more punch into the mixes.

Fix it in the mix. Not in "mastering".

Again! The songs all sound good in the studio and we are satisfied with the mixes, we would just like to make it louder and warmer. HELP!!!!

If you were really satisfied, you wouldn't want to make it warmer. If it really needs warming up (whatever that means to you), fix it in the mix.

One last word of advice: When you compare the output of your "mastering" chain with the mix, make sure they are level matched. It is so easy to be fooled by the louder signal. If you listen to them at exactly the same level, you might find out that what you thought sounds more punchy is actually just louder but less punchy, anaemic  and rather small sounding...

UnderTow

+1000! Well said UnderTow! Just to add to this a bit DS, if your mastered material sounds drastically different than your actual mix, to put it bluntly (unless you were attermpting to polish a turd lol) you screwed up. :)
 
The mastering stage should just add a bit of polish to your mix IF you are as satisfied with the mix as you had mentioned. Now, I believe your problem is is too much processing in the mastering stage. I'll explain a few things to you that work for me and you can see if they work for you.
 
First, that punch you want in your drums or whatever has to be done in the mix stage. You either compress and eq the kick just right, or you hybrid a sample in with it to give it some extra punch. I like to hybrid drum sounds all the time and think it's a cool way to get what you are looking for without killing yourself attempting to get that magic out of one sample. Like I may use a sample that gives me thud, and one that gives me a little beater attack on a kick. Mix them together, you get awesome results. Since you are already happy with yours, something is happening in the mastering stage that is killing you. I'll get to that.
 
First, I take it you have exported your mixes out of Sonar already, yes? If you haven't, do this first and don't attempt to master in Sonar using your actual mix project. Export the tunes out, and make a new mastering template. When you mix/export out of Sonar, shoot for a -3dB peak level on your LED on the master bus. If -3dB is good enough for Bob Katz, it's good enough for us. :)
 
After you take everything UnderTow said into consideration, let's take a look at your effects chain. If you use eq, compressor, multi-band and then limiter, you need to know how to use those effects as well as what the outcome will be once they are processed. To me, I don't see the need for a multi-band comp AND a compressor unless that compressor adds a little something due to its processing algorithm. For example, if you ran all those plugs and then ran OTB out to a physical hardware API compressor, I'd buy into the multi-band comp/regular compressor theory. The reason being, the API is going to add warmth that you just can't get from most software plugins. One other thing...the word "warm" means a lot of different things to people in this world. To me it means "the perfect blend of eq color without being harsh or abrasive..lack of annoying high end."
 
Next, import back into Sonar using the mastering template you create with the effects your mentioned. As UnderTow mentions, each job IS different and may require a different chain so be careful. These effects should all be on your master bus, not the track bin insert.
 
Another thing that I stress here...and though it may be impossible for you due to limited budget....but again, this is tough....you listened to these songs hundreds of times to mix them. When you hit that "export" button, in your mind you were done. Mastering on the same monitors you mixed on is always going to be tougher and you will always risk the chance of missing the obvious from being too close to the material as well as missing where there may be problem areas.
 
But since we have what we have here, let's proceed. Eq the tune to where you feel it sounds the best to you. Remove nasty sub low end that doesn't need to be there, remove nasty high end that doesn't need to be there....watch your mids so that no mid range congestion creeps into the picture...which is the worst offender of those that are crying for "warmth."
 
From here, the multi-band comp can be used lightly. When I say lightly, the purpose for it to even be here is to take care of the little peaks and valleys you may have created using your EQ. That's all the MBC should be doing here. Most rap and hip hop have drop note bass drums...sub low pulses etc. If you have boosted any low end at all, you want to take notice to that and allow the MBC to do its job here. But again, you don't want to make it pump or breathe. You just want it to soften the transient blows so that the sub low isn't out of control. The same with your low mids, mids high mids and highs. You want the MBC to just kick in ever so slightly to keep things even so that certain things do not leap out at you. As soon as you notice this doing something negative to your mix, you are using too much...or you have accentuated too much of a frequency somewhere and the MBC is letting you know.
 
Once you think you have the right amount of MBC going on, make sure the master bus LED meter reads the same peak as the track meter. If you are getting 2 different readings, compensateusing the MBC output control so that your peak on the master bus LED is the same as the peak on the track with an entire pass of the song. Our target range is -3dB peak.
 
Now, some guys master with their limiter on at all times so they can hear how the mix will be...others turn it on last when everything is done. I do both. It depends on the mix. For something like what you are doing, I'd wait until last to turn on my limiter. I'd set it for an out ceiling of -0.1dB and I'd jack up the threshold so you can hear things pumping and then adjust your attack and release so that the limiter is working with you, not against you. When you have a nice blend there, back the threshold down until you hear the limiter is no longer messing with your drums especially. The first thing that suffers with too much limiting is a kick and a snare drum. Adjust the threshold until your kick and snare have the punch you feel you had in the mix. As soon as that snare or kick loses it's punch and sounds like there are no hard hitting transients, you're over-limiting.
 
I don't know what you are using as a limiter, but for rap, hip hop, R&B, classic rock, blues and country, my weapon of choice is the PSP Xenon. For nasty hard rock, metal and anything with a bit of dirt under the finger nails, I prefer the Waves L2. I hope some of this helps....best of luck to you. :)

gefitch

DSProductionz


Hello everyone,

I just finished recording, mixing and editing my friends album and I am ready to start the mastering process. I was wondering if anyone can share some effects processing chains I can use for mastering?

I know that this isn't the preferred way to master but the project is on a $0 budget right now... Hehehehe!

I am mastering for the hip-hop listener so I want the drums to hit hard with a lot of warmth and presence. All the mixes sound good but in comparison to professional masters they are far off in the following way:

Level - Not as loud and up front (punch, warm and present) as the professional mixes.

I want to use what I have in Sonar X1 Producer Edition to do this and was hoping for some guidance.

Should I use to following chain:

EQ>Multiband Compression>Limiter ???

I feel like my chain is a little limited and is lacking something that can bring a bit more punch into the mixes.

Again! The songs all sound good in the studio and we are satisfied with the mixes, we would just like to make it louder and warmer. HELP!!!!

Thanks in advance!

 
 
I think this echos some of the helpful suggestions you've already received, but what the hay, more info from a different perspective is always good.
 
I like this particular video because he gives you two methods of trying this technique. The second technique of creating a second track is fast and less confusing if you've never done this before. Of course, you don't have to process the entire kit like this guy does, could just do the kick or whatever...even the bass. 
 
I first heard of this method in The Mixing Engineer's Handbook. It can work great! 
 
Cakewalk SONAR: Boosting A Drum Sample With Parallel Compression In Sonar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZalApzev5zo&playnext=1&list=PL826A98CA38E1E5E7
 
Hope it helps you!
Gary

Gary, good post and information...but if you don't mind (I hope you won't mind?) in my opinion, I don't think that's a very good representation of parallel compression. That's no offense to Dan that made the video...as he was close, but missing the most important ingredient. To my ears, all he did was make the signal louder. If he were to match the compression level with the actual level of the drum loop, you would hear 0 difference and there SHOULD be a difference. The object of p-comp is to completely compress part of the signal to where it alters things drastically due to the compressor giving artifacts and a little dirt. A good example of this (other than I do not like boost 11 because it seems to dirt up a bit too much for my liking) is in that Cory Yarckin tune the Cake staff produced. If you haven't downloaded that mix for Sonar X1, definitely grab it as they really did a nice job showing various techniques.
 
But the way it should work is, you mix in that dirty over-compressed sound with the regular sound and it gives you a bit more punch. There is no need for the doubling of the loop file. All he needed to do was to use his first example and literally run the compressor so it compresses with different attack and release time. All he did was boost to my ears. You should hear the compressed bus giving off compression artifacts and a slight amount of dirt to the file...then you mix that in moderation in with the original signal. I didn't even really hear that compressor kick in at all eventhough it showed a lot of gain reduction. P-comp is supposed to have compression artifacts to an extent and can even be a little dirty.
 
Not trying to be confrontational with you, honest, just trying to explain the technique a bit better which in this particular example, I felt needed a little help. Try what I'm saying and you'll see what I mean. Make that compressor work to where it gives you some compression artifacts and then mix it in with your regular drum signal using his first method. Then, eq the p-compression bus and it will have even more impact. :) That said, if the OP already has a good drum sound like he mentioned and is losing that drum punch after mastering, this is not going to help him due to the over-processing of the mastering procedure. Hope this helps and again, I'm not trying to disagree...just explain the technique a bit more in depth.

Ok here goes, check your final mix levels you want hip hop to be fairly loud in terms of your peak meters and rms meters.  I would aim for minus 3 db in the peak meters.  If you are under or over use the trim to set the gain stage appropriately.

Next use the spectrum analyser to work out how the tracks are behaving in terms of frequency response.  Look for any peaks in the mids and low mids.  Fix accordingly.  This can be done either with an EQ and if this does not work then the multi-band.

Once all this is done I suggest you compress, then EQ, then use the brickwall limiter.

You should be aiming for an average level of around -9db for hip-hop.  The analyser should be peaking a -10 for the bass frequencies, around -20 for the low mids and mids and slowly going down further to shimmering at the top end.

Use a low shelf filter to raise the bottom end app 3 db at 80hz and use a hi shelf filter to raise the top end 3db at 8khz this figure of 8khz can be 12 khz if you are using an outboard EQ.

Finally find the formant of the track, this is the part of the track where it really sings.  this step is not important if the tracks are well mixed.

Finally finally use a brick wall limiter set the output to -.3 db and bring the input up 3db.

Hope this helps.

Dr.Hash
www.aaudiomystiks.com
ps oh yea make sure all tracks are around the same rms value.

Have a crack yourself but be sure to save all the original files. You may want to revisit the project in the future when you have picked up more techniques/experience.

Pay someone to do it.

Of course the one nice thing about the Ozone plugin, is you can treat the center and stereo fields seperatly if needed.

The one thing I've never been able to achieve is the "Out of Speaker" sound as I call it that you hear on pro recordings. I've come close, but never could totally get that image of sound to where I couldn't tell where it was coming from. I can always isolate where the high's, mid's, and low's are emanating from out of my speakers and on all good recordings I can't tell. Is it possible to achieve this totally inside the box or is there some analog gear needed?

bitflipper


Set attack times to around 20-40ms in the lower bands and 1-10ms in the upper bands. Set release times to between 100 and 200ms. Attack and release times aren't critical because the signal's above the knee almost all of the time so compression is constant. Consequently, attack and release times rarely (possibly never) come into play.

Actually the attack/release settings are constantly in play. On any decent compressor the attack and release are not on/off switches but rather curves that start as soon as the signal passes above the threshold, (or even earlier when using a soft knee) and once over the threshold they are constantly being recalculated (reset) based on how much the signal is over that threshold as compression is a ratio of the level over the threshold rather than a fixed amount of gain reduction.

Here is an exercise to demonstrate this: Use the regular Sonitus compressor (just because it is easier to set and see) and select a very low ratio. Let's say 1.3:1 and a low threshold. Set short attack (0 ms) and release (30 ms) times and send some music through it so that it is constantly compressing. (Set your threshold at -30 or so). Now look at the gain reduction meter. See how it is varying constantly? It is constantly riding the wave. Now pull the release slider to the right and see how the gain reduction meter gets slower and slower and the gain reduction becomes close to constant. Also listen to what this does to the sound of the music and also listen to what it does to the apparent level and loudness of the output.

The shorter the release, the louder the output will be but the more distortion you will be adding to the signal. (Try a release of 1 ms for instance). The longer the release, the less loud but cleaner the signal will be. (But also more pumping at certain settings).

Attack and release settings are essential to getting the right sound especially if the compressor is constantly engaged.

The subjective loudness should be only slightly higher than before inserting the multiband, but there will be much greater clarity and separation.

It shouldn't be louder at all. Louder always sounds better. It should be at the same level so that one can judge exactly what the compression is adding or taking away without being fooled by loudness.

The whole idea of using a multiband is that you are treating lows separately from highs. A broadband limiter is mostly triggered by low frequencies, causing mids and highs to also be attenuated even when they don't need to be. Letting them exist independently of the lows makes the mix brighter (you may even need to adjust your EQ) and with a greater sense of width (width cues come mainly from high frequencies).

The problem with this is that it creates unnatural sounding mixes. This might not be an issue if that is what one is looking for but it is something to keep in mind.

Anyway, using a hi-pass on the side-chain signal can achieve very similar results as far as making the mix brighter but without the unnatural disconnect between highs and lows. Using a compressor that has individual detection mechanisms for left and right can also increase stereo width (but can cause unnatural  stereo drift with too long attack/release settings).

You really don't need five bands, and mastering multiband compressors typically have only two or three.

Many mastering engineers call them maul-the-band compressors. In other words, most mastering engineers really don't use multiband compression unless they need to fix a broken mix. The whole multi-band compressor thing has more to do with marketing than anything else. Once the market was completely saturated with compressors, multi-band compression was a way to distinguish a new product from the competition. That doesn't mean it is a particularly good idea on most mixes.

I've been meaning to try some other plugins (Endorphin, maybe?)

If despite my advice people insist on using multi-band compressors ,  one worth checking is the FLUX Alchemist: http://www.fluxhome.com/p.ducts/plug_ins/alchemist

If you want to get medieval on the mix's arse, check out Voxengo's Soniform. http://www.voxengo.com/product/soniformer/  This plugin is extremely powerful so it can help you fix some pretty bad issues or... completely destroy a mix if not used carefully.

UnderTow