Mastering with MC6, Sonar 8.5 or Roland VS2400?

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clintmartin
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2012/01/22 19:52:43 (permalink)

Mastering with MC6, Sonar 8.5 or Roland VS2400?

I'm trying a few things just to try and learn something. I bounced all tracks to a new stereo track and normalized it. Is this a good way to begin the mastering process or should it be done on the master bus somehow? The typical thing would be to put a eq, compressor and limiter in the chain. Does it matter where I put them (In the new track or master)? I have Sonar 8.5 now so those effects are availible in MC6. I also sent these normalized tracks over to my Roland VS2400 because I have a good T-racks plugin in it and, I know that machine better than MC6 or Sonar 8.5.  I can't open these projects up in Sonar but I could save as a wav and import that. As always your experience and thoughts would be appreciated.
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    clintmartin
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    Re:Mastering with MC6, Sonar 8.5 or Roland VS2400? 2012/01/22 19:59:29 (permalink)
    As a side note...I sure like the gui in MC6 better than Sonar 8.5. How much do you think an upgrade to Sonar X1 would be? I guess essentials would be good enough since I have the 8.5 producer plugins.
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    clintmartin
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    Re:Mastering with MC6, Sonar 8.5 or Roland VS2400? 2012/01/22 20:10:17 (permalink)
    I found the answer ( I'm not totally useless). $59.99 for Essentials. $149.99 for Producer. Now thats something I may need to do soon. I'll wait untill I can get a better pc though.
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    clintmartin
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    Re:Mastering with MC6, Sonar 8.5 or Roland VS2400? 2012/01/22 20:12:48 (permalink)
    Deleted double post.
    post edited by clintmartin - 2012/01/22 20:14:30
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Mastering with MC6, Sonar 8.5 or Roland VS2400? 2012/01/22 22:04:52 (permalink)
    Mastering: 
    Here's what I do..... not suggesting that this is the only way or even the best.... just how I do it.

    I start a new project and shortly thereafter I insert Ozone into the master buss. As I work through the project, adding new tracks and such.... I insert the plugs and FX I think make the project sound better.

      By the time I get to the final mix, it's usually sounding pretty good. My thought is that if I add EQ in a track, it will be affected by the EQ in the master buss so I'd rather compensate for all that as I go along.  

    So when I reach the end.... it's a matter of making minor changes as opposed to big ones.... generally just levels at that point. 

    I export he song when it sounds fine during playback. I export to a "holding folder" and then reopen it in  WAVE PAD , not sonar. 

    I play it to see what it sounds like. I trim the start and end to get rid of silence and count in ...then and only then do I use normalize to bring the peaks up to 99%.  I stay below 0db in the wave. 

    This is then converted to MP3 if I am going to post it for others to hear. 

    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2012/01/22 22:06:01

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    clintmartin
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    Re:Mastering with MC6, Sonar 8.5 or Roland VS2400? 2012/01/22 22:52:33 (permalink)
    That's interesting....thanks. I just did 4 songs were I bounced them all down to a stereo track. Then I used the sonitus eq for a bass cut. A LP64 comp for light compression. A TL tube leveler to get to -6db. Then I bounced that to another track. I put the boost11 on and brought it up to -5 keeping the reduction to a max of -3db. Then normalized to 0. I'll bring this cd to work tomorrow and see if it's any good. I ask because I know there isn't a perfect way to do these things so it's nice to talk process from time to time.
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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:Mastering with MC6, Sonar 8.5 or Roland VS2400? 2012/01/23 04:59:36 (permalink)
    If you have normalized it to 0 dB, you can not (most likely) make an MP3 of it without clipping (in case you have such intentions).
    I've never heard anyone normalize as the last stage in "mastering". I'd be interested to hear what the gurus think about it.

    I've read several posts here about the quality of normalizing in different software. Someone said he would never trust the normalizing in Nero, someone says only Sound Forge can normalize properly. I don't know what's true.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Mastering with MC6, Sonar 8.5 or Roland VS2400? 2012/01/23 08:04:33 (permalink)
    normalizing seems to be the third rail of recording. 

    Some like it and some hate it. 

    I have pointed out that I normally use it on just about everything as a final level adjuster since it's not a compressor. I will also use it in a track to bump levels a bit... but I also use straight amplification by certain db amounts if I need it. More often than not, I will adjust the input if the level is too low or high. I use amplification to increase or decrease the volume of very small sections in a track...often just a word or even part of a word. 

    No one has ever said to me that the normalization has destroyed any quality in the music. Even with my MP3 conversions..... no one ever says they hear clipping due to MP3 headroom being eat up my the normalization. 

    I look at the wave form in the WAVE file and compare it to the MP3 wave form and there is NO evidence of clipping. I run the peaks up to 99% of 0db with normalize...well over the -3 db that everyone talks about as the "magic number" not to exceed. 

    The problem with Normalization as I see it: 

    I have heard all the point for and against normalizing. For me, I hear no problems with the songs and even tracks that have been normalized. 

    I think the biggest problem with using normalization is not so much the 3db headroom issue as it is on the other end of the scale..... the noise near the lower volume of the tracks. 

    When you normalize a track, the volume of everything in the track is brought up by the same percentage, until the highest peak in the track hits 0db (or whatever you have set as highest).  This means everything in the track gets turned up by that amount...including the noise. 

    On midi tracks with synths, this is generally not a problem since the silence is usually silence. However, on an audio track, recorded with either a mic or a guitar preamp of some sort, there WILL be noise. How much will vary. BUT...all that noise gets turned up along with the music in the track. depending on the source material, this could be inconsequential or a major problem. 

    That's my 2 cents on normalization. 

    It's a tool....

    I use it. 

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    clintmartin
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    Re:Mastering with MC6, Sonar 8.5 or Roland VS2400? 2012/01/23 10:18:11 (permalink)
    I probably shouldn't say mastering. I'm really using 4 songs I have near completion as a way to learn the MC6/Sonar daws. I'm basically practicing mixing and mastering in MC6/Sonar. My first test (as described above) sounds to compressed to my ears so I'll remove the compressor and leveler and try again tonight. I'm amazed at the sound quality and level the pro guys get...I want my stuff to sound good even if it's not as hot as the commercial stuff. My wave forms are not a solid black bar they have a lot of peaks and dynamics. So for me practice and experimentation is going to be a must I'm afraid.
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Mastering with MC6, Sonar 8.5 or Roland VS2400? 2012/01/23 10:33:23 (permalink)
    The sound the "pro's" get comes from 2 things. having the best gear and software and knowledge of how to use that gear/software. 

    Having said that, we can get some pretty good results by learning what we need to do and how to do it within the limitations of our gear. 

    Mastering is generally a process applied to a collection of songs on a CD to make them all sound similar. We do probably use that term a bit to loosely when referring to the final sweetening and polishing we do to individual songs. 

    Nobody will black list you for calling it mastering.....we know what you're referring to. 

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
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    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
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